What Is Your Religion ?

[RedWine]

I am always amazed at the wide range of religions in iran...so share.what religion are you?

[golgol85]

if you start the thread, arent you supposed to start off the voting in the poll as well? ;)

[RedWine]

i voted already !

[Parinaz_M]

ok i have to confess that i am a very bad muslim
i don't do anything that i am supposed to do
so i don't think i should be calling myself a muslim

[RedWine]

ok i have to confess that i am a very bad muslim
i don't do anything that i am supposed to do
so i don't think i should be calling myself a muslim

70% iranihayeh mosalmoon injurian ! kasi vaght nadareh,islam is a hard religion and havin too much rules ! banabar in taghsiri nadari to !

[abadani69]

I am agree with Redwine. I am Muslim, and I am proud of my religion. As long as we say that we have a religion and what's our religion, that's enough because most people say that they don't believe in any of the religions. So I think everyone should be proud of their religion and believe in what they have to believe.

[golgol85]

do those of you who chose "other" care to tell us about what you believe in (if you would like, that is)?

[Narges-Khanoom]

yeah manam mosalmoonam and I do what I'm supposed to do as much as I can, I do pray, I wear hijab and ect... But Redwine joon yes Eslam kheili ghanoon dare and it is a hard religion but it also has answers for your every question.... Right??????!!!!!!!! ;)

[Parinaz_M]

vala mosalmoon boodan kheyli sakhte.
man migam adam faghat bayad khodaro ghabool dashte bashe, va karaye bad nakone, va be hame komak kone. kholase adame khoobi bashe
sia joon ye religione dige pas be en poll ezafe kon ---> Muslim (Parinaziiiii)

[Narges-Khanoom]

lol pari joon.... in dige che eligionie...lol ;)

[Parinaz_M]

gharare ke maroof beshe, hala bebin
to ham boro convert besho be en religione man ke jat akhare beheshte

[abadani69]

Parinaz khejalat bekesh, injoori harf nazan azizam

[donsaeid]

salam behameye azizane gol... dorood bar shoma

vala bishtare ghavanin ro ensanhai mesle mano va shoma gozashtan...

masalan hamin hejab... lebas monaseb beposh... nagofte ke tamame vojodeto ba parche bepichon to damaye 40 daraje...

Islam az shoma eshgh, mohabat va dosti mikhad... baradari va barabari kalami bod ke peighambare eslam bahash omad...

har kas ke in chizaye eslam mesle namaz, zakat, haj va roze ro raayat nemikone vali dar delesh be khoda va peighamabare khoda eteghad dare... bazam mosalmone. goole sheitano nakhor ke behet mige mosalmone badi hasti... age yadet bashe hamishe migim : be name khodavande bakhshandeye mehraban...

Age ke in dastorate mohem ro reayat mikoni eftekhare bish az had nakon chon fakhr va ghoror yek gonahe bozorge...

dastani bod: yek ensane momen ke dast az pa khata nakarde bod neshaste bod to masjed dasht namaz mikond... dar in hal ke bod yek ensane fasede khalafkar varede zendan shod... in momen dar doa goft: khodaya shokret mikonam ke mesle in ensan nistam. va ensane khalafkar va gonahkar bedone vozo (chon balad nabod) va bedone namaz(onam balad nabod) zano zad va ba gerye goft: khodavanda man kheili kara kardam to zendegi va az harfat sarpichi kardam... mano bebakhsh... va on tobe kard va az rahe kajesh bargasht...

dar hamin lahze har do mordan... yeki raft behesht... yeki raft jahanam... benazareton ki?

ino na man mitonam begam na to--- chon tanha kas ke mitone khode khodast... ama man fekr mikonam oni ke tobe kard hatman behesh jashe... chon ba inke badanesh kasif bod... ama delesh pak bod... ba inke karash na dorost bod ama sajdash dorost bod...

kholaseye kalam...
Ghalbet pak bashe... lebase paket be darde khoda nemiad...

Rohet khodai bashe...

vaghti ba dele pak begi khoda yek bar... on mishnave...

ama age delet pak nabashe... 1000 bar begi khoda ba tooti farghi nemikoni :D

[Narges-Khanoom]

True..........

[RedWine]

Inja chizi keh pish miad ineh keh ,mazgab beh vojoud umad keh raheh dorost va bad ro beh maha neshoun bedeh,besheh mesleh mesleh yek seri ghavanin barayeh behtar zendegi kardan ! in faghat Islam nist keh enghadar dast va pa gir hast ! hameyeh mazaheb injurian,montaha Islam digeh shouresho dar avordeh ! bishtarin ghavaninesh,beh dardeh alan,va zendegi-e keh maha darim nemikhoreh !

Mesaleh kheili sadeh : Vaghti Khalifeh Omar Ebn Khattab hokoumat mikard, did araba enghadar sharab mikhoran keh sharab ro haram kard ! yani in adam,nayumad yek political law bezareh (mesleh uni keh salhayeh 1920-40 dar USA gozashtan!) umad goft choun man Khalifeh-yeh moslemin hastam,pas migam az emropuz,sharab khordan dar Islam haram hast !

Hala goushteh khouk,hejab va baghieh chert va pert ha ham hamintor !

Alan,touyeh Iran, taghriban beh sourateh kamelan ziad, Islam beineh javounha az bein rafteh ! barha shodeh behem goftan keh un pesarha va dokhtar haei keh touyeh khanevadeh hayeh mazhabi bozorg shodan,bishtar beh fahsha va masaeleh namousi dochar shodan va moshkel daran ! inja yek eshkale bozorgi bayad basheh keh ,in javounha beh in sourat avaz shodan.

In Islam tanha bad az enghelab naboudeh keh barayeh maha moshkel ijad kardeh,hamisheh Islam mazhabi boudeh dast va pa gir, khasteh konandeh,sathi va ta hodudeh ziadi adam ro yadeh ensanhayeh nakhostin mindazeh !

Man un bala neveshtam,'Other' ! yani momkeneh keh kheiliha bashan keh mesleh man,'Spritual' bashan va ya budist ! midunam keh inja,hastan afradi keh mazhabeshoun ro avaz kardan !

[Narges-Khanoom]

RW joon khodeto khaste nakon enqad type mikoni energit tamom mishe ha....
be jaye in kara yekam ketab metabaye mantegh bekhon jigaaaar...barat khobe

[ares]

Red Wine jun, motmaini ke sharam ro Khalifeh Omar Ebn Khattab haram gharar dad. Fekr mikonam sharab az vaghte Payambar Mohammad harame.

[RedWine]

Red Wine jun, motmaini ke sharam ro Khalifeh Omar Ebn Khattab haram gharar dad. Fekr mikonam sharab az vaghte Payambar Mohammad harame.


Nah azizam.sharab ro siah pousthayeh Ethiopi (Habasheh) avordan beh Arabestan ! va badan ham yadeshoun dadan keh dar jahayeh khosh ab va hava,angour tolid konan ! montaha enghadar ziadeh ravi kardan keh Omar dastour dad va fatva dad keh haram basheh !


Narges nafahmidam manzouret chieh aziz !

[mahsaak]

islam is = holly Qoran says, not all the things happen in iran
begole ye bande khodayee iran va hokoomatesh mige ghorano vel kon eslamo bechasb. chon daghighan bar axe.
vaghti dar ghoran umadeh ke لا اکراه فی الدین
yani ke dar din hich ejbari nist. va hokoomate iran daghighan baraxe.
amr be maroof va nahy az monkar be zoore. dar hali ke be yad ba nasihat bashe ek be del beshine.
baraye haine ke mardoe iran az eslam zadeand.
eslam kheli shirine. faghat kafie dar mordesh kami tahghigh konid, vaghean be mosalman boodanetoon eftekhar mikonid.
chizi ke mosalame , vaghti be ensan zoor tahmil beshe. hamishe ensan az un kar na farmani mikone. chon ensan az khodesh ekhtiar dare. fekr dare s, shoooor dare. dar natije khodesh bayad be bavarash berese.
. man yek mosalanam, hameye dinha baram mohtaramand, hich farghi beyne ensanha ba dine mokhtalef neikone, hame bayad "adam" bashan ghabl az inke din dashte bashan

[donsaeid]

Cheghadr man donbale in aye migashtam. merci mahsa jan. baraye hame ke fekr mikonan Eslam yek dine ejbarie. Moteasefane Islam morede soe estefade gharar gerefte va hamin baese yekseri soe tafahom dar in mored shode.

لا اکراه فی الدین
hich ejbari dar din nist

[RedWine]

ageh ineh,pas chera agar kasi mosalmoun basheh,dinesh ro avaz koneh, behesh migan 'kafar' va mikoshanesh !?!?!?!

[kami joon]

Religion man Parinaziiiii hast. For more information contact Parinaz_M. vali man nemidonam religion man hast chi.

[golgol85]

age adam be toore kamel rajebe dinesh bedoone, hich dalili vase avaz kardanesh nist. vaghti adam dinesho avaz mikone ke aval pedar madaresh behesh tahmil kardan dino, bad ham ke khodesh miyad mibine khoshesh nemiyad dinesho avaz mikone. there is nothing wrong with changing ones religion, but it would be nice to make the choice on your own in the first place so you dont have to change your religion.

Man muslim hastam va ta akhare omram ham khaham bood. baraye tamame adyane dige ham ehteram ghaelam.

[donsaeid]

ageh ineh,pas chera agar kasi mosalmoun basheh,dinesh ro avaz koneh, behesh migan 'kafar' va mikoshanesh !?!?!?!

khob azize man be ghole barareia adame kasekalla shompet hameja hasat

[donsaeid]

age adam be toore kamel rajebe dinesh bedoone, hich dalili vase avaz kardanesh nist. vaghti adam dinesho avaz mikone ke aval pedar madaresh behesh tahmil kardan dino, bad ham ke khodesh miyad mibine khoshesh nemiyad dinesho avaz mikone. there is nothing wrong with changing ones religion, but it would be nice to make the choice on your own in the first place so you dont have to change your religion.

Man muslim hastam va ta akhare omram ham khaham bood. baraye tamame adyane dige ham ehteram ghaelam.

to karet doroste azize dele baradar

[golgol85]

to karet doroste azize dele baradar
na inke to karet dorost nist saeid? ;)

[RedWine]

na inke to karet dorost nist saeid? ;)

baba inja about religion bahas harf bezanin ! berin touyeh un yeki otagh harf bezanin na mosalmunaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa hahahahahaha

[golgol85]

baba inja about religion bahas harf bezanin ! berin touyeh un yeki otagh harf bezanin na mosalmunaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa hahahahahaha
negaran nabash, manzooresh va manzooram ine ke karesh toye religion doroste! nakoneh hesadat mikoni? khob to ham karet dorost! :D

[RedWine]

negaran nabash, manzooresh va manzooram ine ke karesh toye religion doroste! nakoneh hesadat mikoni? khob to ham karet dorost! :D

sad saleh siah nemikham karam dorost basheh touyeh ''religion'' ! hahahaha

[Persian Chick]

My religion is humanity, something that takes precendence over all other things in the world...i hate to put myself in one category in all aspects of life and therefore become self-centred.

HUMANITY is my religion and JUST is my aim!

[golgol85]

sad saleh siah nemikham karam dorost basheh touyeh ''religion'' ! hahahaha
khob toye spirituality karet doroste! toam in vasat mola loghati sho ha!;)

[golgol85]

My religion is humanity, something that takes precendence over all other things in the world...i hate to put myself in one category in all aspects of life and therefore become self-centred.

HUMANITY is my religion and JUST is my aim!
Very nicely put! I like the way you think. :)

[Parinaz_M]

Religion man Parinaziiiii hast. For more information contact Parinaz_M. vali man nemidonam religion man hast chi.

lol kami, jigareto

[meysam_bache_bahal]

vala shoma be har site va ketabi dar tamame noghate donya dar morede arabhaye ghabl az eslam va bad az eslam sar bezanid mibinid joz goftane alaho akbar chizishun avash nashode ye soal az shomaha daram shoma chetor entezar darin ke un arabhai ke susmar mikhordan va dokhtarashuno zende begur mikardan behamin rahati avaz beshan? hazrate mohhamad dini avord ke dar hadde arabha bud mitunest dinni behtar biyare amma un din be arabha nemikhord dar zemn eslam be zur be mardom tahmil mishode va harkasi ke mosalman nemishod koshte mishod.man khodam tuye ketabe tarikhe 10000 saleye iran khundam ke arabha har javane iraniiro ke az 120 centimetr boland tar budaro gardanesho mizadan va in ham haghighat dare chun be onvane mesal chetor alan jamiyate iran enghad kame nesbate be hendustan? hendustan dar zamane hazrate mohamad andazeye iran jamiyat dashte shayad yezare bishtar ama alan shoma moghayese bokonid ke cheghad iraniro arabhaye vahshi va bi farhang koshtan jamiyate hendustan alan 17 barabare irane.daghighan in neshun mide ke arabha bish az 70% mardome irano koshtan.zende bad azadi va eshgho safa marg bar arabhaye terrorist va bifarhang ke az surakhe dastshui galle galle miyan birun.

[DariushM]

man aslan ro hich dini ta'asob nadaram...jigar
***Edited***
jamiat iran alan kam tare chon masahatesh khaily kamtare
ye vaght iran az shargh kashide mishode ta be jonoobe oroopa(yoonan) va ta shomale afrigha(mesr)
:) simple mathmatics jigar tala:)

[DariushM]

chera jamiate japan az china kam tare?
hataman araba zadaneshoon:)

[meysam_bache_bahal]

chera jamiate japan az china kam tare?
hataman araba zadaneshoon:)
avalan chin masahatesh 15barbare japone vali ba in hesab 15 barabaram jamiyat nadare dovoman mage henudstan cheghad az iran bozorgtare? juri sohbat mikoni ke enghar akharin bari ke naghsheye irano didi zamane koroshe kabir bud.

[-=Tapesh=-]

Muslim (Shia'a)

[DariushM]

avalan chin masahatesh 15barbare japone vali ba in hesab 15 barabaram jamiyat nadare dovoman mage henudstan cheghad az iran bozorgtare? juri sohbat mikoni ke enghar akharin bari ke naghsheye irano didi zamane koroshe kabir bud.
ooooooookay:) 1300+ sal pish ke arba be iran hamele kardan iran khaily gostarde tar boode
but its okay im done talking about this:)
you can inlight us more with your accurate information:)

[meysam_bache_bahal]

ooooooookay:) 1300+ sal pish ke arba be iran hamele kardan iran khaily gostarde tar boode
but its okay im done talking about this:)
you can inlight us more with your accurate information:)
in conclusion i must say iran was not very larger than what is it today.we should only consider a small part of afghanistan that was part of iran,other than that central asia was turanian.

[bluesky_152000]

CHRISTIAN (",) !

[donsaeid]

i was wondering how can tapesh have so many members and not even on christian... thank god for bluesky :D

[golgol85]

maybe they dont want to say they are christian? there are a lot of iranians who are christian, so i find it hard to believe that out of all the people here, only bluesky is, unless the other people who are dont like posting in the threads? *shrugs*

[donsaeid]

you can be right golgol khanoom

[RedWine]

Shayad mitarsan began keh masihi hastan !

[donsaeid]

Vaghti yeki iman dare be chizi nabayad betarse.

[golgol85]

che tarsi dare? adam bayad be ooni ke hast eftekhar kone (toye har chi mikhad bashe: din, mazhab, shoghl, etc.)! :)

[horiyeh]

muslim (shi'aa) wooohoooo:D proud

[nanakhafan]

ha me too :D

[donsaeid]

man mondam chetor 9 ta sunni hast to site ama esme 3tashon malome...

rasti avalin bari ke masaleye shie va sunni shod yek moshkele bozorg zamane safavian bod.... ay khoda azash nagzare....

[RedWine]

man mondam chetor 9 ta sunni hast to site ama esme 3tashon malome...

rasti avalin bari ke masaleye shie va sunni shod yek moshkele bozorg zamane safavian bod.... ay khoda azash nagzare....

ina,unhaei hastan keh blue nick daran,yani e-mail ok nadaran ! nemitounan inja chizi began !

[mahsa88]

Zartosht

[horiyeh]

eeeee mahsa joon yazdi bidi???? same az my dad!!:D

[mahsa88]

lol na man yazdi nistam haha

[horiyeh]

loool... akhe man shenideh boodan, yazdia zartoshti bidan:D:D

[mahsa88]

lol mostly yes

[Sepideh_UK]

Yek Irani hastam. Khodaro ghabul daram. Dinam== Aghlam .

[donsaeid]

Yek Irani hastam. Khodaro ghabul daram. Dinam== Aghlam .

dorood bar to sepideh bekhatere in roshanfekrit

[Sepideh_UK]

Mamnoonam said jan.

[jjbb]

dine majbori bekhatere khanevadeh eslam
vali din yani vojdan , ensaniyat, mehrabani, komak be digaran,......

[donsaeid]

dine majbori bekhatere khanevadeh eslam
vali din yani vojdan , ensaniyat, mehrabani, komak be digaran,......

ba fekre avalet mokhalefam...
ba fekre dovomet moafegh...

dar dine eslam hich ejbari nist... dar asl dar hich dini ejbar nist... va to bayad age nemikhai mosalmon bashi in jorat ro dashte bashi ke be khanevadat begi

[jjbb]

etefaghan khonevadam ham midonan na inke az onha penhoon konam...
pedaram ke rohash hamishe shad bashe kheili motaghed bood ke har shakhs bayad khodesh ro beshnase va khodesh bayad tasmim begireh ke che dini ro ghabol dareh
hamishe migoft dine eslam dine in molaha nist va bad shoro mikard bara ma tozih midad ke chera ma bazi az karharo mikonim( az lahaze pezeshki,...) inghadr khosham miomad ke hamash benshinam va ba babam sohbat konam va javab chera hayam ro bedeh.

[donsaeid]

very nice of your father to do that...

yes what we see in iran is not islam... islam is harmony, peace and love... and it came as a religion to save... but... bad people... bad timing... bad results happend in our time... ( i mean revolution)

[RedWine]

jjbb read this now !!

http://www.tapesh.com/forum/showthread.php?p=166881#post166881post166881

[RedWine]

New Users...Vote pls ;) .

[kourosh15]

Dine man Khodaparastiye;)

[RedWine]

Dine man Khodaparastiye;)

Very nice & deep perspective .

[BehnazNaNaz]

I am Muslim, and I am proud of my religion

[soniq]

bache mosalmoon hastam.

[donsaeid]

Salam be dostane azize jadid :D

khoshhalam az javabaton ;)

[Sepideh_UK]

ageh ineh,pas chera agar kasi mosalmoun basheh,dinesh ro avaz koneh, behesh migan 'kafar' va mikoshanesh !?!?!?!

i tottaly agree with u .
Thats exactly how it works out to be in Iran!!!

[RedWine]

i tottaly agree with u .
Thats exactly how it works out to be in Iran!!!

Barayeh inkeh az aval beh maha dorough goftan va beh dorough rah ro neshoun dadan !!! vali hanouz dir nist ! hanouz misheh bargasht va faghat ba Khoda boud va joda az in bi savad ha va bi farhang ha shod ! ma ba unha fargh mikonim .

[donsaeid]

Barayeh inkeh az aval beh maha dorough goftan va beh dorough rah ro neshoun dadan !!! vali hanouz dir nist ! hanouz misheh bargasht va faghat ba Khoda boud va joda az in bi savad ha va bi farhang ha shod ! ma ba unha fargh mikonim .

vish :D

[tatatapesh]

من مسلمانم قبله ام کو کجاست

در نمازی که نمی خوانم من

جای سجاده و مهر کجاست

من وضو را برده ام پاک ز یاد :smt051 :smt088 :smt051

[purrsian_cat]

whats the difference between soni and shiya?

I always forget

loool

[Nutcase]

Sorry , Sites with the worlds ''Iran , Iranian , Ir ''Are Banned in this Site .

[Nutcase]

the part with the stars supposed to be 'iranian', dunno why tapesh makes it look like that

[tatatapesh]

http://x83.xanga.com/282a615a4453273145893/t49283333.jpg

فرقش در این است که شیعه پنج تا نقطه داره و سنی یکی :confused: :idea: :idea:

[purrsian_cat]

oh ok ta ta ta pesh.. mersi

[RedWine]

New Users Vote Pls :=)

[mike435]

i am jewsih and not just from an ethnic, caultrul view point but from a religious prespective as well
so i guss i am a jewish jew. and i am loving it

[nh1366]

din chie..ye seri rasmo rosoom ke mardom dorost kardan bara niaze khodeshoon

[mike435]

that is exactly hat i used to think until i stumbled again apon the jewish religion and saw how balanced it was. And more importantly how sound.
so i cant say religion is fake.

[donsaeid]

that is exactly hat i used to think until i stumbled again apon the jewish religion and saw how balanced it was. And more importantly how sound.
so i cant say religion is fake.

you are far from balanced! and people who lost their religion and find it again or convert to something new, many times become fanatics! ( im talking in general )

[mike435]

that is exactly hat i used to think until i stumbled again apon the jewish religion and saw how balanced it was. And more importantly how sound.
so i cant say religion is fake.

elaborating more on that point

my personal experiance was this
i took some philosophy classes, biology's anthro just the whole general thing
and when you have these libral ethiest professors who are constantly tyring to point things in a direction that their is g-d forbif no g-d you sart to loos faith in religion and you do consider it as a just a culture, or just a way of life.

but thene i had this crazy experiance of finding my self and was able to sit dow with some great rabbies
people who had doctrate in there respected secular studies tearing apart secular studies not throgh blined faith but objective step by step argumants. including fiels such as philosophy, anthro pology, and diffrnt scinces. THey also used these scinces the other way. it sound hypocritical but when you do it the right way its not.

examlple one rabbi who i was able to talke to had a phd in philiosophy and was a chair at a very perstgious school in america it went to show you what crudentials they have.

dont get me wrong their are still things that they didnt answer for me but thats ok becuse in reality their is never realy proofs but just a complication of evidance. and their is more evidance that their is a g-d than their is not. just got to look for it.

you dont have to realy have a religion to blive in g-d religion is just a means a tool and if it is somthing that can be good why not subscribing to a code of rituals and costums that has more g-dliness to it then regular excistance.
also keep in mined religion is not the only means of achiving g-dli ness its just a means that is already their and why not use it.

why reinvent the wheel

religion is the wheel and G-d is the destination.

[indian_blues]

Hindu :)...i think im the only hindu here... :P......who cares abt that....

[mike435]

thats dop i was trying to crash a hindu studies class
whats the diffrance between hindu and budaism

[Ahmaad]

islam is = holly Qoran says, not all the things happen in iran
begole ye bande khodayee iran va hokoomatesh mige ghorano vel kon eslamo bechasb. chon daghighan bar axe.
vaghti dar ghoran umadeh ke لا اکراه فی الدین
yani ke dar din hich ejbari nist. va hokoomate iran daghighan baraxe.
amr be maroof va nahy az monkar be zoore. dar hali ke be yad ba nasihat bashe ek be del beshine.
baraye haine ke mardoe iran az eslam zadeand.
eslam kheli shirine. faghat kafie dar mordesh kami tahghigh konid, vaghean be mosalman boodanetoon eftekhar mikonid.
chizi ke mosalame , vaghti be ensan zoor tahmil beshe. hamishe ensan az un kar na farmani mikone. chon ensan az khodesh ekhtiar dare. fekr dare s, shoooor dare. dar natije khodesh bayad be bavarash berese.
. man yek mosalanam, hameye dinha baram mohtaramand, hich farghi beyne ensanha ba dine mokhtalef neikone, hame bayad "adam" bashan ghabl az inke din dashte bashan



100% movafegham!!
aslaan eena hamash nazare mane! so niazi nis doobare benevisam :D

eyval mahsak khosham oomad az nazaratet ;)

[Cop]

vay hanoz mellat bahse religion mikonan, baba to ke migi dine to behtarine, pas baghie mardom ke dinhaye dige daran chi? ona beran jahanam???
hamme dinha chizaye moshtarak dran, to zendegi adame khobi bashid, karaye bad nakonid, be kasi zolm nakonido in harfa diige hala har chi dinet mikhad bashe, religion chizi bode ke hokooomat'ha dar toole tarikh ovordan bala chon in tanha vasileye boode ke mitonesan ro mardom tasiirr bezaran :)
anyways fellan

[RedWine]

vay hanoz mellat bahse religion mikonan, baba to ke migi dine to behtarine, pas baghie mardom ke dinhaye dige daran chi? ona beran jahanam???
hamme dinha chizaye moshtarak dran, to zendegi adame khobi bashid, karaye bad nakonid, be kasi zolm nakonido in harfa diige hala har chi dinet mikhad bashe, religion chizi bode ke hokooomat'ha dar toole tarikh ovordan bala chon in tanha vasileye boode ke mitonesan ro mardom tasiirr bezaran :)
anyways fellan

In chiz hayeh moshtarak migi,manzuret faghat ghesmat hayeh khubesheh,nah ? .. un ghesmat haei keh beh mardom salhayeh sal dorough goftan chi ? unha hesab nemisheh ? ki javab-e in ja ro mideh ? belakhare kam kam dareh hameh chiza roshan misheh, mardom digeh bi savad nistan ! mardom daran kam kam soal mikonan jaryan chieh ! chetorieh keh mazhab barayeh ba'azi az adam ha poul miareh va khosh bakhti,vali barayeh adamayeh digeh bad bakhti va zolm va narahati miareh !!!

Adam aval bayad yek suzan beh khodesh bezaneh, yek javalduz ham beh digaroun ! digeh touyeh in zamuneh, sareh kasi kolah nemireh ! har ki ham keh mikhad hanuz saresh kolah basheh,khodesh hast keh moghassereh va akhreh kar,az hameh chizha aghab mi ofteh !

[Cop]

In chiz hayeh moshtarak migi,manzuret faghat ghesmat hayeh khubesheh,nah ? .. un ghesmat haei keh beh mardom salhayeh sal dorough goftan chi ? unha hesab nemisheh ? ki javab-e in ja ro mideh ? belakhare kam kam dareh hameh chiza roshan misheh, mardom digeh bi savad nistan ! mardom daran kam kam soal mikonan jaryan chieh ! chetorieh keh mazhab barayeh ba'azi az adam ha poul miareh va khosh bakhti,vali barayeh adamayeh digeh bad bakhti va zolm va narahati miareh !!!

Adam aval bayad yek suzan beh khodesh bezaneh, yek javalduz ham beh digaroun ! digeh touyeh in zamuneh, sareh kasi kolah nemireh ! har ki ham keh mikhad hanuz saresh kolah basheh,khodesh hast keh moghassereh va akhreh kar,az hameh chizha aghab mi ofteh !

1, doros harfamo nafamidi ya doros nakhondi
2, age manzoret ba islam hast, ye chize saree hamin signatueret ke dar morede sangsar gozashti, aya midooni sangsar dar che mavared miat va tarighe amalesh chie chejoore??? age ino midooni bad man bahat dar morede dinha bahs mikonam :)

[Cop]

Shayad mitarsan began keh masihi hastan !


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL siamak u r so funny maaaan, wtf u r talkin about!!! chi chio mitarsaaan, to shakhsi hasti ke be har tarighi i donno whats ur problem but be har tarighiii doos dari esme islamo bad dar biarii har joooor ke shode :)

[Cop]

bara etella'ate omoomit migam, islam is the fastest and largest growin religion in world :)
khoda ro shokr ke to yeki goolle in mosalmoonaye adam kosh nakhordio mosalmoon nashodi,

ye infoye dige bara etella'ate omoomit inke, suicide bombing ro avalin bar japoniha anjam dadan dar zamane jange jahanii ba amrika ke dashtan,

man har az gahii miam ye khorde etela'at behet midam ke befahmi donya daste kie azizam :)

[abadani69]

man ham ba Mamad movafegham. hich dini mesle Islam nemishe

[donsaeid]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL siamak u r so funny maaaan, wtf u r talkin about!!! chi chio mitarsaaan, to shakhsi hasti ke be har tarighi i donno whats ur problem but be har tarighiii doos dari esme islamo bad dar biarii har joooor ke shode :)

He is not alone on it! unfortunetly because of some stuff In and Out side iran People have a wrong picture of islam!

Islam is religion of peace, brotherhood, Respect, Harmoni and Love ;)

[RedWine]

Mammad jan shoma do sal va khurdei hast keh mano mishnasi va fekr nakonam ta beh hal dar inja chizi dideh bashi keh neshangar-e bi ehterami-e man nesbat beh eslam va ya mazhab-e digar basheh !

Touyeh in section,beh andazeyeh kafi mataleb gozashteh shodeh dar mored-e inkeh dalayeli keh man miaram,kamelan bar hasab-e history va khod-e Ghora'an hast ! man hich chizi ro bedun-e dalil nemigam !

---

Moshkel-e asli tanha eslam nist ! bahs-e man dar mored-e tamam-e mazaheb boudeh va hast ! in shoma budi keh eslam ro matrah kardid,nah man !

---

Mazhab umad ta barayeh ensan ha rahi basheh barayeh azadi va behtar zendegi kardan, Aya az zamani keh mazaheb umadan, ensan ha ba azadi zendegi kardan ? aya mardom ta beh hamin alan tamaman ba hoghugh-e mosavi zendegi kardan va mikonan ? ..in noktei hast keh har adam-e aghel va baleghi miduneh keh mazhab hamisheh mored-e su-e estefadeh gharar gerefteh shodeh va moteasefaneh hich vaght natunesteh rahi basheh barayeh hamzisiti-e moshtarak bein-e ensan ha !!!

---

Dar keshvar-e man va shoma, Iran ,agar kasi bekhad mazhabesho avaz koneh, mored-e khashm-e akhoundha gharar migireh, zendani misheh va e'edam misheh ! chera ? agar Mohammad in kar ro mikard dar 1400 sal-e pish,baray-e in bud keh dar an zaman,te'edad-e mosalman kam bud,nah inkeh bekhad ghanuni ro bezareh keh baes-e zajr va azab-e mardom besheh !

---

Aya mardom-e Iran bedun-e jang eslam ro ghabul kardan ? aya eslam bedun-e khun rizi umad beh Iran? nah !!! ma ghabl az eslam, mazhab-e digeh dashtim,ma zartoshti budim ! shoma madraki biar keh neshun bedeh keh ta hamin hala mardom-e Iran az din-e Eslam razi budan va hastan. chounkeh Iranian,dar hich zamani az din-e eslam razi nabudan va nakhahad bud ! mazhabi keh beh zur biad va ba shamshir beh jelo bereh, hich vaght nemituneh jaygah-e asli-e khodesho peida koneh ! nah hameyeh mardom hazeran keh kur kuraneh ghabul konan tamame masaeli ro keh baghieh migan va goftan !! hastan adamhayeh ziadi keh digeh hazer nistan keh beh zur-e shamshir ,sareshun kolah bereh va sareshun balayeh dar bereh ! an zamanha digar gozasht !!

---

Barha dideh shodeh keh khod-e saran-e mazhabi, Ali Hossein az iranian bad goftan va tamamn hadis va tarikh amadeh keh arabha ba ma doshman budan, pas taklif-e in jaryan chi misheh ? aya in ham dorougheh ?

---

Agar shoma entezar darid keh man kur kuraneh begam keh eslam perfect hast, moteasefaneh bayad shoma ro na omid konam va begam keh eslam,manand-e mazahebeh digeh kamel va perfect nist !!! ghavanin-e eslam nah dar zaman-e khodesh, va nah alan barayeh mellat-e Iran va nah hich vaght kafi budeh,in ghavanin kamelan neveshteh shodeh hast barayeh a'arab,nah barayeh mellati keh khodesh sahebe ghavanin budeh va hast va kameltarin jaryan-e farhangi ro dareh !

---

Dar Iran, zanan ba'ad az eslam ta beh hamin alan mored-e zolm gharar gereftan, hich vaght zanan,natavanestan hamanand-e mardan az hoghugh-e mosavi barkhordar bashan ! bikhod va bi jahat daran zanha ro az bein mibaran va in chizi nist keh digeh beshavad penhan kard !

---

Dar inja yek nafar dareh dorough migeh ! ya eslam va ya hokumate eslami !! shoma entekhab kon ! ki inja dareh zolm mikoneh va azab ijad mikoneh barayeh mellat-e Iran ? ki va ya cheh kasani daran su-e estefadeh mikonan ? va chera ? shoma entekhab kon, shoma neshun bedeh va tozih bedeh ta keh besheh dar yek jahat-e mostaghim va sazandeh bahs kard !

---

Dar har sharayeti keh basheh,man taraf-e mellat-e Iran hastam ! man mikham azadi dar keshvaram basheh,man nemikham digeh zur va zolm va ejbar dar Iran basheh,shoma begu ki moghassereh va chera ! man beh hameyeh aghayedi keh bar hasab-e aghl va mantegh bashan,ehteram mizaram !

[mike435]

guys wether you belive in the religion or not or logicly it dosent make sence to you that religion should excist or not excist
you should leav the subject alon
because even if you have seen bad from a religion it is not the truely religious that you should be going after, it is the crazy fanatic that uses it as a tool of hate. and alters its interpatations

what ever religion that has pissed you off, you are barking up the wrong tree because the avrage religious prson is truely using the religion for good

and even lets say you still think that rellligion or all these are g-d forbid fake you dont have to consstantly chalange it because it is a good and why would you want to tarnish somthing that is good

remeber the avrag religious person uses religion for what it is intended so i think the whole argument of chalenging religion in a public places to the masses is iralevent becuase it is not the masses that are using religion in uninteded ways

for example from relligion of peace comes stonning of a young woman who has been raped,
because of this incident are you gonne lable alll muslims inhuman,? Offcourse Not because an overwealming majority dont beliveit and are extremly against it,most will remain muslim becuase it was not their religioun that did it.

also if you keep putting up examples of religous people who have done bad you only creat hate like that, and you push the moderates of that religion to extremes becuase they think your cartique is against them.

example muslim terrosit hijaked plane crashed it in to the worls trade center.

that was not an act of islam it was the evil act of acpoul of individuals who interpeted islam like that it would not make sence to say islam is bad becuase it is not islam

also at the same time when people say religion is the root of all evil
that has truths to it to becuase unfortanitly it is the fanatic minority that ussualy takes helm of the movment and logicly in anything if you take it all the way you cant see somthing else coexcisting so you start hostility among the mases. hopefuly we can bring some rational to the religious minority in hopes that they wont creat hotilitys

also you have allwyas seen ingighting in the same relgion so even if their was no religion people will still fined ways to kill each other.
the sad thing is religion is the fasest and most efficient way to unite people.

[Nutcase]

mike well put and yes i agree we have to stop generalizing and putting an entire religion or all religions into one basket and keep stepping on it cause what some fanatics do with it, plz go and stomp on those individuals who change the religion and for example stay behind their holy book to defend themselves when they go on a killing spree and call it holy war. the root of the problem are people who misinterpret religions, not the religion itself!

[vafakhal]

i am announcing proudly, i am a pure Bahai. In my perspective all other religons are respectable including Islam but unfortunately islamic religious leaders make human beings frustrated!

[yek_bar_masraf]

I am a muslim too, Vali be nazare man ensane khoob boodan mohem tar az ejraye forooye din hast.

[moshken]

I am all of the above.

[NightOwl]

I wanted to say I am muslim.. then i thought I have to clean my hands and face from what fundamentalists do, I get sick and tired of each time setting a parantesis infront of my religios existance to express myself. How can i digest putting a defnceless woman in a Gooni and stone her to dead? even animals don't do that.

I wanted to say I am Christian. then i thought I have to clean my hands and face from what Bush and Co, and vatikan, and Mr. Pastor X do and does.

I wanted to say I am Jewish.. then i thought I have to clean my hands and face from what Israel does, and so on

... other religions.. well sorry i do not know much about them, so I say as Great Gandhi said once, I belong to all these religions and non of them.

Life is an introduction to death. religion is an instrument of life not the aim of life.
I ask did religion come for the sake Man, or Man is created for the religion?
Did not religion come to be an instrument in the hand of Man? or Man is an instrument in the hand of religion? which one is the object and which one the subject?

Religion (s) came to help the Man to find his way back to his origin, like a navigator, a way map, a guide to teach: although you look alike or are an animal
but you are not ment to remain an animal through your life and die as an animal.

But THEY (mullah, priest, rabai, etc) have turned everything up-side-down. And consequently their aim justifies their mean. So just kill, burn, take away, hang on cranes, stone to death,... and later on wash your hand and stand to pray.

Don't tell me I am generalizing, because I am not, but instead just give me a thread, something to hang on. Does your aim justify your mean? Then your are a pimple on the face of religion.

Has God send the religion to be an instrument for man or God created Man to become an instrument for religion (in the hand of priests, Rbais or Mullahs)?.

So: what i believe on: IN MY HEART is non of ur business. What am I wearing for YOU to watch and judge: is NO Religion.

I yet remember the echo of the voice of a sick old man who was repeating in my bliding ears: Hama barayeh Islam! Hamah barayeh Isalam.

Peace

[mike435]

responce to nightowl
in a book by tariq ali "the clash of fundamentalisims" he argues the same thing that religion is just an ancient political party to control people. I dont agree but if you like that stuff check it out



i dont even think iran should be one but ahamadinejad likes to think so and tells the world so
and most muslim pertymuch go along with it other than disporah iranians
infact it is very rare that you see muslims standing up and loudly protasting these theocrocy based governments i am talkng about modarate muslims living out side.
this is not political what i am saying it is rare to see muslims protest and distance theme selfs from the hanious inhumane actions of these radical theorocy states because they have given them a bad name or tarnished islam in general.

and as for israel and bush well

for israel i dono most of their people are secular citizens who only identify with judaisim throgh blood or cultral identity
in fact their is a religious jewish movment that is against israel and these orthodox jews

and for bush i dono maybe because he is a concervative christian

but than you can put all this stuff asaid and draw your inspiration from the good that each one of these relligions have done
and their is alot
i think especialy modern chritianity more than any with their love based initive to spread christ love, i very much like alot that they do i dont like every second when they try to convert you but i like the fact that throgh this aim they have set up many charity orginization
not just local but on a global base
from africa to the middle east to aisia

[DokhtarIrooni]

man mosalmoonam

[GoorGoor]

religion is poison

[konica]

Islam didnt come to make our lives difficult, but to make it simpler. It came to show us moderation, yet we "muslims" make islam hard on ourselves.

[Inquisitor]

Muslim, a Shia fundamentalist in its purest form

[Inquisitor]

I wanted to say I am muslim.. then i thought I have to clean my hands and face from what fundamentalists do, I get sick and tired of each time setting a parantesis infront of my religios existance to express myself. How can i digest putting a defnceless woman in a Gooni and stone her to dead? even animals don't do that.


Do you know what does fundamentalism mean ? If you knew the correct definition, you wouldn't use that word.

Wassalam

[Borzo]

با دورد و سلام
من بهائی هستم و مطالبی را که دوستان در این جستار یا تاپیک نوشته اند را با علاقه خواندم. با اجازهء شما میخواستم به چند مطلب اشاره کنم. هستند در میان هم میهنان گرامیم که اطلاع کافی از دیانت بهائی ندارند و شوربختانه با تبلیغات منفی ای که در باره این دیانت، در کشورمان ایران، در طول بیش از 160 سال شده است؛ شکستن بعضی از دیوارها و موانع را برای شناسایی حقیقت این دین سخت تر مینماید، اما غیر ممکن نیست. برای از بین بردن این موانع می بایستی من و شما بهتر با عقاید یکدیگر آشنا شویم. دیانت بهائی هیچگاه عقیده و آرمان خود را بر کسی تحمیل نکرده است ولی از انسانها میخواهد که دست کم با این آرمانها آشنا شوید و اگر مقبول افتاد به کار بندند، نیازی به بهائی شدن نیست همان که بدانند این الگوها برای سعادت بشر وجود دارد کافی است. این در عمل هم تجربه شده است؛ تأثیری که ظهور باب و ادیان بابی و بعد از آن بهائی بر روی افکار جامعهء ایران در برپایی نهضت مشروطه داشتند، انکارناپذیر است.

با سپاس

[mike435]

Do you know what does fundamentalism mean ? If you knew the correct definition, you wouldn't use that word.

Wassalam

take the oppertunity and clarify
i definitly can use it

[Inquisitor]

take the oppertunity and clarify
i definitly can use it

You are neither a scholar nor an high school graduate yet, therefore I do not care what you want to call someone/something that you have no clue of, because it is not academic.

Tell me what is your definition of Fundamentalist and I will give you mine

[mike435]

You are neither a scholar nor an high school graduate yet, therefore I do not care what you want to call someone/something that you have no clue of, because it is not academic.

Tell me what is your definition of Fundamentalist and I will give you mine


based on experiance excluding you

people who only see Islam as the true religion, there fore they fallow it word for word (nothing wrong with that)

they live there life by it (ggreat do what you want to do ) but all the while they belive it so much that they will , and wont leave room for anything else to exist simultaneously(not with in islam but outside of there scope) and they take away individual thinking willing to ruin older traditions just so there truth prevails more importantly believes its ok to denounce others beliefs and change the host culture when they arrive
best example i think is Iran
the more i read about it the more i see how this country changed and is changing becuase of a minority(who know maybe a majority) that is fundamentalist and is trying to steer the country towards it
but on a huge scale i think fundamentalist have the who world as there playground becuase they belive that alah and his messenger is the truth and the world should be enlightened and live the true life

please when you answer me try to use an agnostic point of view even though probably for a fundamentalist is impossible

[mike435]

You are neither a scholar nor an high school graduate yet, therefore I do not care what you want to call someone/something that you have no clue of, because it is not academic.



boro baba get off your high horse hala khodet ki hasti ya agar kasi hasti enghadar bayad menato soorat mali bash bokoni

bezarbegam to ehtemalan 2-3 danashga rafti oonfaght hala khodeto dari mikoshi

kojast in humble boodanet mage fundemental nisiti fekardam adam bayad humble bashe

agar nemifahmi vasat englisi minevesiam

[Inquisitor]

Looks like you don't know the difference between fundamentalist and extremists. Do not trust anything that you hear from Fox news.

Scholars refuse to accept the definition provided by most people regarding the term “fundamentalism” they mostly overlook the philosophical depth of the concept.

All humans are fundamentalists. Although they don’t say it, in truth a system is established or perceived upon a foundation, a base if you like. The base of what we believe is supposed to be very strong to support the weight of our arguments. Usually we take this foundation as undisputable facts or the truth, something that can’t be argued with. Otherwise our arguments would be weak and collapsible. Indeed some take their logic as their foundation; some take existence as their foundation and so forth…

It is to believe and practice an ideology based on a certain foundation! However it is important to note that many ideologies or systems are based on multiple foundations, not just one.

Islamic fundamentalism is probably the only ideology truly based on one foundation. In fact any Moslem who is not a fundamentalist is effectively saying that religion of Islam fails to address certain issues, and therefore he has failed to understand the universal aspect of the religion.

Example:
1- Al Qaeda is an extremist group. (Efratgarayi) افراط گرايي
2- Lebanese Hezballah are Fundamentalist (bonyadgarayi) بنيادگرايي

based on experiance excluding you

people who only see Islam as the true religion, there fore they fallow it word for word (nothing wrong with that)

they live there life by it (ggreat do what you want to do ) but all the while they belive it so much that they will , and wont leave room for anything else to exist simultaneously(not with in islam but outside of there scope) and they take away individual thinking willing to ruin older traditions just so there truth prevails more importantly believes its ok to denounce others beliefs and change the host culture when they arrive
best example i think is Iran
the more i read about it the more i see how this country changed and is changing becuase of a minority(who know maybe a majority) that is fundamentalist and is trying to steer the country towards it
but on a huge scale i think fundamentalist have the who world as there playground becuase they belive that alah and his messenger is the truth and the world should be enlightened and live the true life

please when you answer me try to use an agnostic point of view even though probably for a fundamentalist is impossible

[Inquisitor]

boro baba get off your high horse hala khodet ki hasti ya agar kasi hasti enghadar bayad menato soorat mali bash bokoni


This is what I said: You are neither a scholar nor an high school graduate yet, therefore I do not care what you want to call someone/something that you have no clue of, because it is not academic.


Chizi joz Haghighat nagoftam.


bezarbegam to ehtemalan 2-3 danashga rafti oonfaght hala khodeto dari mikoshi

kojast in humble boodanet mage fundemental nisiti fekardam adam bayad humble bashe

Read Surat al Anfal, ( Holy Quran chapter 8 ), you will get my answer.


agar nemifahmi vasat englisi minevesiam

Your Farsi is much better than your English. Har jour keh Salah midani ( Farsi, ingilisi, arabi, torki ).

Wassalam

[mike435]

2- Lebanese Hezballah are Fundamentalist (bonyadgarayi) بنيادگرايي

lol tell me your kidding right
hezbolah is fundamatalist lolololololol

vaveyla agar fundamatalist hezbolah bashe fateh hamayema khoondast

hazaram islamic republic fundamatalist bashe ta hezbolah
please dont repeat that again just when i was comming to accept that no fundamatalist are peac loving qoran obaying people, you drop this bobmshell that it is hezbolah

[Inquisitor]

They are indeed party of Allah (swt). They are defender of Islam and Lebanon.

We defend the oppressed and fight the oppressor, To you we are demons and to us Zionists are demons and we’re going to smite one another, remember that death comes for us all and justice awaits us next, all I can say is that stick with what you believe is the truth, we do the same, in the end only the truth remains.


“If they really believe in God let them express their desire for death!”

Wassalam

lol tell me your kidding right
hezbolah is fundamatalist lolololololol

vaveyla agar fundamatalist hezbolah bashe fateh hamayema khoondast

hazaram islamic republic fundamatalist bashe ta hezbolah
please dont repeat that again just when i was comming to accept that no fundamatalist are peac loving qoran obaying people, you drop this bobmshell that it is hezbolah

[mike435]

OMG i cant belive what you are saying
when i watch the news i allways say these people dont excist it is right wing neo con propeganda OMG
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
how can you consider the group g-dly when it kills innocent people
g-d is good, reason for creation is g-d expression of loving and kidness
how can hezbolah be this when it kills so easily so offencivly
what do you call the AMIA Bombing were 85 were murdured
what do you call starting a rocket attack with israel and sending thousands of rockets filled with ballbaring at civillian sites delibretly soly to kill
what do you say when these rockets were desighnd so even if they miss a target the ball baring shooting out kill the people around it
how can you consider this group g-dly when it considers a mission is a success when innocent civillian are killed inside there shelters or home
how do you consider this g-dly, good, holy ,

[Inquisitor]

Write it in an organized paragraph or Farsi.

OMG i cant belive what you are saying
when i watch the news i allways say these people dont excist it is right wing neo con propeganda OMG
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
how can you consider the group g-dly when it kills innocent people
g-d is good, reason for creation is g-d expression of loving and kidness
how can hezbolah be this when it kills so easily so offencivly
what do you call the AMIA Bombing were 85 were murdured
what do you call starting a rocket attack with israel and sending thousands of rockets filled with ballbaring at civillian sites delibretly soly to kill
what do you say when these rockets were desighnd so even if they miss a target the ball baring shooting out kill the people around it
how can you consider this group g-dly when it considers a mission is a success when innocent civillian are killed inside there shelters or home
how do you consider this g-dly, good, holy ,

There is a good idiom in British literature that says: "The pot calling the kettle black"

[mike435]

if your online stick around i will post in a few minutes

[mike435]

Write it in an organized paragraph or Farsi.



There is a good idiom in British literature that says: "The pot calling the kettle black"

OMG I cant believe what you are saying
when I watch the news I always say these people don’t exist it is just a right wing neo con propaganda
OMG

how can you consider the group(hezbolla) g-dly when it kills innocent people
g-d is good, reason for creation is g-d’s expression of loving and kindness
how can Hezbollah be this when it kills so easily so offensively


Were do you see the g-dly ness in AMIA Bombing were 85 were murdered
Were do you see the g-dly ness in starting a rocket war with Israel and sending thousands of rockets filled with ball baring at civilian sites deliberately solely to kill the civilian
Were do you see the g-dly ness when these rockets were designed so even if they miss a target the ball baring shooting out kill the people around it


how can you consider this group g-dly when it considers a mission is a success when innocent civilian are killed inside there shelters or home
how do you consider this g-dly, good, holy , this is not al-h

[mike435]

We defend the oppressed and fight the oppressor,

What bull is this what oppressed are you talking about, the lebonies are being oppressed by Israel is there checkpoints that’s oppressing theme or Israel military rule of Lebanon or is it Israel dominance in Lebanon or its control of the government or it business man what are you smoking were do you get off saying this shit
The minute legitimate thing you can use would be the shba farms and even that used be syrias
And for the sake of this conversation lets say its Lebanon’s, lets say they get it back, that action of getting it back all of sudden makes the Lebanese free?, makes there life better, ?

life is not all about honor, the only reason you want the farm is because you cant stand seeing Israel having it, you will never even occupy even if you did have it yet you are willing to kill thousands on both sides just you can continue you bs cry to fasly make a belief that you died for something worthwhile

and if it is Islam that Israel is hurting either Israel is extremely powerful or Islam is extremely week


remember that death comes for us all and justice awaits us next, all I can say is that stick with what you believe is the truth, we do the same, in the end only the truth remains.

You see this sounds good but the sad reality is your reality is that I should be terminated and killed while my reality says I should first accept your reality and let it coexist and just mined my own
You see you believe that I deserve to die while I believe you are creation of g-d and he will deal with you
You believe that yea g-d should deal with me and you will the medium to deliver that justice.
Do you see what I mean
I believe justice lies in g-ds hands while you believe justice lies in g-ds hands but you can be the administrator of it



“If they really believe in God let them express their desire for death!”

i don't know if it directed towards me or you
but me i have to live to the last breath and killing or suicide is wrong even excecution can be done by a single person becuase in religion i cant even have an executioner

[mike435]

i am still waiting for your responce for you to explin to me how hezbolah is g-dly

and how murduring and using terrorisom is doing g-ds work

[asal67]

I am Muslim, and I am proud of my religion. As long as we say that we have a religion and what's our religion, that's enough because most people say that they don't believe in any of the religions. So I think everyone should be proud of their religion and believe in what they have to believe.

daghighan moafegham aziz :D

[mike435]

abadani nicly said

[Inquisitor]

OMG I cant believe what you are saying
when I watch the news I always say these people don’t exist it is just a right wing neo con propaganda
OMG

how can you consider the group(hezbolla) g-dly when it kills innocent people
g-d is good, reason for creation is g-d’s expression of loving and kindness
how can Hezbollah be this when it kills so easily so offensively


Which God are you talking about? You don’t believe in holy Quran. How can you tell me what is Godly or not according to holy Quran? Do you even know the 99 names of Allah (swt) in Islam?

اللهم اني ادعوك باسمائك الحسنى كلها

From one side you defend the value of human life and from the other you bomb Lebanon and Palestine and else where and talk about collateral damage.
Your governments are constantly in war inventing ever-deadlier WMDs.


Count every single death that has been committed in the name of Shia Islam in Occupied Palestine and compare the figure with all the blood that Zionists in particular or other ideologies have spilled… it would be incomparable!


and if it is Islam that Israel is hurting either Israel is extremely powerful or Islam is extremely week

Israel is nothing without the money of USA. Leaders of Islamic countries are weak. They are bunch of puppets from Maqreb to Bahrain.



Were do you see the g-dly ness in AMIA Bombing were 85 were murdered
Were do you see the g-dly ness in starting a rocket war with Israel and sending thousands of rockets filled with ball baring at civilian sites deliberately solely to kill the civilian
Were do you see the g-dly ness when these rockets were designed so even if they miss a target the ball baring shooting out kill the people around it


how can you consider this group g-dly when it considers a mission is a success when innocent civilian are killed inside there shelters or home
how do you consider this g-dly, good, holy , this is not al-h

Problems didn’t start summer of 2006, you have to study the history from late 19th century to this day, and for Lebanon you have to go back all the way back to 1982.

It is an occupied land, many of those so called civilians have migrated there from Russia, Poland, ... .

Watch this documentary

http://www.baabeilm.com/Audvid/video/films/thematic/the_american_democracy.wmv

[Inquisitor]

I believe justice lies in g-ds hands while you believe justice lies in g-ds hands but you can be the administrator of it

And they did nuke Japan and armed Saddam with Chemical weapons, Tragedy of Qana, Rwanda, ... .

Is this Justice ?


i don't know if it directed towards me or you
but me i have to live to the last breath and killing or suicide is wrong even excecution can be done by a single person becuase in religion i cant even have an executioner

It is indeed unexpected as well as funny to read your comments because you have taken every “You” in my previous post as a reference to yourself as an individual; however I merely meant you as people or your government or what you stand for.

[Inquisitor]

i am still waiting for your responce for you to explin to me how hezbolah is g-dly

and how murduring and using terrorisom is doing g-ds work

I 'll be online once a week or often not at all.

If you want to get a quick respond, join http://www.shiachat.com

My brothers and sisters in Islam will intercept your threads or posts quickly

Wassalam

[Tenerife]

Atheist.

[IQ]

I don't think that you shoul've put sunni and shia as different vote, because christianity is similar or even worse. there are so many different types of christianity too. so i find it a little bit inappropiate. it just should've been muslim.

[Nargees]

I am Ismaili Muslim hastam which as you might now is one of the branch in Islam. AND proudly can say that I am MUSLIM and NEVER NEVER change my relegion.

[reza1st]

To me, lack of self confidence along with weakness of humankind brings about religion. If we were not to die no religion in this world would have existed. I believe it is everybody’s wish that the heaven and hell, the life after death, were reality. Some of us have learned to put aside logic and believe in these goodies (bekhodemoon yaad daadim ke khodemoono gool bezanim). Yes it is hard to think that when we die, that’s the end of us. But to me that’s the reality of this life and nature.

A lot of you may have questions like “why do we exist if there is nothing after death?”, “what’s the purpose of this life?” and …
It is easy to find the answers to these questions but you have to have self confidence and look wisely. (Study Probability and Statistic, study it very deeply)

All religions like everything else around us have goods and bads. What is destructive is to force religion on others and to think that the religions are created by god (a metaphysical power). If there exists a god hopefully it’s greater and better than the so called god who sent Koran, Bible, … that are full of flaws!

People please read Koran before believing in Islam, read Bible before becoming Christian, study them, think about them and critique them. Don’t interpret them, it is not suppose to be hard. If you be tricked by the ones who tell you that “you have to look at what god meant then and in this verse” then all your life you have to be interpreting everyone’s words and sentences along with every book, because they are not any different . (If you read a mathematical book that had 2 x 2 is equal 12 would you say it is a mistake or would you say you can interpret the 2 by 2 as 6 by 2 or 12 as being 4?!?! I don’t think so!)

And be open minded. Be debate friendly and talk to each other. Don’t think what you believe is the best, it is not! Listen and think about what others have to say.

Finally here is something I believe in: be good for yourself and for the sake of others. Be kind to everyone from any religion and any country, not for god, not for heaven, just for yourself and them, for your conscience. Teach this to yourself. This is much greater and stronger than believing in any religion. This is you believing in yourself and goodness of others. Be strong.

Wish you all the best.

[maryam9]

You are neither a scholar nor an high school graduate yet, therefore I do not care what you want to call someone/something that you have no clue of, because it is not academic.
Tell me what is your definition of Fundamentalist and I will give you mine take the oppertunity and clarify
i definitly can use it
Inquisitor - you didnt actually say what it was :confused:

I am genuinley interested in knowing the difference between extremists and fundamentalists.
Can you please clarify the difference for me:confused: . Thankyou.
__________________________________________________ ___________

reza1st - you raised some interesting things. I wanted to reply to one of your topics but im going out right now and am in a rush.

[IQ]

Extremism is a term used to describe the actions or ideologies of individuals or groups outside the perceived political center of a society; or otherwise claimed to violate common standards of ethics and reciprocity. It is usually considered by those to whom it is applied to be a pejorative term. It is typically used in reference to political and social ideologies seen as irrational, counterproductive, unjustifiable, or otherwise unacceptable to a civil society. The term connotes the illegitimacy of certain ideas or methods.

The terms "extremism" or "extremist" are almost always exonymic—i.e. applied by others rather than by a group labeling itself. Rather than labeling themselves "extremist", those labeled as such tend to see the need for militant ideas or actions in a particular situation. For example, there is no political party that calls itself "right-wing extremist" or "left-wing extremist", and there is no sect of any religion that calls itself "Extremism."

Radicals as extremists
The term "extremist" is used to describe groups and individuals who have become radicalized, in some way, even though the term radical originally meant to go to the root of a (social) problem. The term "radical" is a somewhat less negatively-connoted label sometimes used by radical individuals or groups to label themselves.

The terms "extremist" or "radical" are often used to label those who advocate or use violence against the will of the larger social body, but it is also used by some to describe those who advocate or use violence to enforce the will of the social body, such as a government or majority constituency. Ideology and methodology often become mixed under the single term "extremism".

The idea that there is a philosophy of extremism is thought by some to be suspect. Within sociology, several academics who track (and are critical of) extreme right-wing groups have objected to the term "extremist", which was popularized by centrist sociologists in the 1960s and 1970s. As Jerome Himmelstein states the case: "At best this characterization tells us nothing substantive about the people it labels; at worst it paints a false picture." (Himmelstein, p. 7). The act of labeling a person, group or action as "extremist" is sometimes claimed to be a technique to further a political goal—especially by governments seeking to defend the status quo, or political centrists.

On the other hand, according to George and Wilcox, the use of the "extremist" label has been historically applied to both the extreme right and extreme left, but they claim that some academics on the left wish to change the frame of reference to one in which only the far right, but not the far left, lies outside the pale of societal acceptability.

Uses of the term in mainstream politics
John Fitzgerald Kennedy paraphrased Dante by saying "The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who, in time of moral crisis, maintain their neutrality" (from Dante, Inferno, The Divine Comedy).

Barry Goldwater said, "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue" at the 1964 Republican Convention in a phrase attributed to his speechwriter Karl Hess.

Robert F. Kennedy said, "What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents."





Fundamentalism originally referred to a movement in North American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism (see below, "History"), stressing that the Bible is literally inerrant, not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record. This original "fundamentalism" holds as essential to Christian faith five fundamental doctrines:

the inerrancy of the Bible,
the Virgin birth,
physical resurrection,
atonement by the sacrificial death of Christ, and
the Second Coming.
In its broadest usage in general terms, it denotes strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles; or, in the words of the American Heritage Dictionary: "a usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism."

History
Fundamentalism, as the term is used today, is a fairly recent creation closely linked with the historical and cultural contexts of 1920s U.S. Protestantism (e.g. the Fundamentalist-Modernist Controversy in the Presbyterian Church). Since then the term has been 'exported' abroad and applied to a wide variety of religions including Buddhism, Judaism, and Islam. Fundamentalism should not be confused with Revivalist movements which can be traced back much further in time and are not specific to 20th Century America.

[IQ]

Origins and Development of the term
Fundamentalism, as a movement, arose in the United States starting among conservative Presbyterian academics and theologians at Princeton Theological Seminary in the first decade of the Twentieth Century.

It spread from there to conservatives among the Baptists and other denominations during and immediately after the First World War. The movement's purpose was to reaffirm orthodox Protestant Christianity and to defend it zealously against the challenges of liberal theology, German higher criticism, Darwinism, and other "-isms" it regarded as harmful to Christianity.

Since then, the focus of the movement, the meaning of the term, and the ranks of those who willingly use the term to identify themselves have changed several times. Fundamentalism has so far gone through four phases of expression while maintaining its central commitment to its orthodoxy.

The earliest phase involved identifying the fundamentals of Christianity and initiating an urgent battle to expel those inimical to orthodox Protestantism from the ranks of the churches.

The series of twelve volumes called The Fundamentals (1910-1915) provided a wide listing of things considered inimical to the Faith: Romanism (i.e., Catholicism), Socialism, modern philosophy, atheism, Eddyism (i.e., Mary Baker Eddy and her Christian Science), Mormonism, spiritualism (i.e., "channeling" and the like), but above all, "liberal theology"[1], which rested on a naturalistic interpretation of the doctrines of the faith, German higher criticism, and Darwinism, all of which appeared to undermine the Bible’s authority. The writers of the articles were a broad group from North America and the United Kingdom and from many denominations. The doctrines they defined and defended covered the whole range of traditional Christian teachings.

Almost immediately, however, the list of inimical movements became narrower and the “fundamentals” less comprehensive. Some defenders of the fundamentals of Christianity began to organize outside the churches and within the denominations. The General Assembly of the Northern Presbyterian Church in 1910 affirmed five essential doctrines regarded as under attack in the church: the inerrancy of Scripture, the Virgin Birth, the Substitutionary Atonement of Christ, Christ’s bodily resurrection, and the historicity of the miracles. These were reaffirmed in 1916 and 1923. Another version put the Deity of Christ in place of the Virgin Birth.

The term "fundamentalist" was perhaps first used in 1920 by Curtis Lee Laws in the Baptist Watchman-Examiner; but it seemed to pop up everywhere in the early 1920s as an obvious way to identify someone who believed and actively defended these doctrines of Christianity. The Baptist John Roach Straton called his newspaper The Fundamentalist in the 1920s. The Presbyterian scholar J. Gresham Machen disliked the word, and only hesitatingly accepted it to describe himself, because, he said, the name sounded like a new religion and not the same historic Christianity that the Church had always believed.

Through the 1920s in the United States, the fundamentalists and modernists struggled against each other for control of the large northern denominations. Fundamentalists viewed this struggle as nothing less than a struggle for true (i.e., historical) Christianity against a new non-Christian religion that had crept into the churches themselves. In his book Christianity and Liberalism (1923) Machen called the new naturalistic religion "Liberalism" but later followed the more popular fashion of calling it "Modernism".

Even though people like Harry Emerson Fosdick professed to be Christian, fundamentalists felt Fosdick and other nonfundamentalists could not be regarded as such because they denied the traditional formulations of the doctrines of Christianity and created modern naturalistic statements of the doctrines. The issue was as much a struggle over a view of the identity of Christianity as it was over a method of doing theology and a view of history. Fundamentalists believed that the ways the doctrines were formulated in an earlier era were true and that modern attempts to reformulate them were bound to be false. In other words, the fundamentals were unchanging.

Church struggles occurred in the Methodist Episcopal Church, the Protestant Episcopal Church, and even in the Southern Presbyterian Church, but the grand battles were fought in the Northern Presbyterian and Northern Baptist denominations. Machen was the undisputed leader among Presbyterians, joined by Clarence E. Macartney. Baptists created the National Federation of the Fundamentalists of the Northern Baptists (1921), the Fundamentalist Fellowship (1921), and the Baptist Bible Union (1923) to lead the fight. The battles focused upon the seminaries, the mission boards, and the ordination of clergy. In many ways, however, the real strongholds of the Fundamentalists were the Southern Baptists and the countless new independent churches spread across America’s South and Midwest, as well as the East and West.

Late 1920s to the early 1940s
By 1926 or so, those who were zealous for the fundamentals had failed to expel the modernists from any denomination. Orthodox Protestants, who still numerically dominated all the denominations, now began to struggle amongst themselves. During the Depression of the 1930s the term "fundamentalist" gradually shifted meaning as it came to apply to only one party among those who believed the traditional fundamentals of the faith. This party embraced a policy of separation – if they could not remove modernists from the Church, they would remove the Church [meaning themselves] from the modernists. Meanwhile, neo-orthodoxy associated with Karl Barth’s critique of modernism found adherents in America as well as Europe.

During this period, "fundamentalist" came to refer principally to those advocating a separatist practice as a means of maintaining the fundamentals of the faith. These separatist fundamentalists split off from the modernist mainline churches, forming various new orthodox denominations. These fundamentalists also identified themselves with what they believed was pure in personal morality and American culture. Thus the term "fundamentalist" came to refer largely to orthodox Protestants outside the large Northeastern denominations.

Early 1940s to the 1970s
In the 40s, a split occurred among these separatist fundamentalists, specifically over the issue of separatism. While the persistent separatists continued to identify themselves as "fundamentalists", the other sector came to regard the term as undesirable, having connotations of divisiveness, intolerance, anti-intellectualism, lack of concern for social problems, and possibly even ignorance or foolishness. This second group wished to regain fellowship with the orthodox Protestants who still constituted the vast majority of the clergy and laity in the large Northeastern denominations – Presbyterian, Baptist, Methodist, and Episcopalian. They began calling themselves "evangelicals" rather than "fundamentalists". The champions of this movement were Carl F. H. Henry and Kenneth Kantzer, and later Billy Graham. While the two groups still had much in common organizationally, methodologically, and theologically, the fundamentalists believed they were more zealous than evangelicals in their opposition to apostasy, Communism, and personal evils, and they were far less willing to cater to social and intellectual respectability. The evangelicals regarded the separatists’ approach as unduly antagonistic and counter-productive; furthermore, by abandoning ecclesiastic, academic, and social institutions, the separatist fundamentalists had essentially surrendered control of these fields to the modernists. The separatist hard-liners tended to oppose Billy Graham, the reading of Christianity Today, and patronage of Wheaton College and Fuller Theological Seminary, while evangelicals supported these.

Late 1970s and the 1980s
During this period, dismayed by changing social conditions, many of the separatist fundamentalists also rethought the withdrawal from society, and became politically active, and as such were sometimes described as neo-fundamentalists. They formed coalitions with other conservative Christians. Jerry Falwell, and Tim LaHaye together with Pat Robertson became leaders of the trend. Religious and moral conservatives of all kinds also went on the offensive at that time, all trying to re-assert conservative (orthodox) control of the churches and other institutions. However, this shift has tended to blur the lines between fundamentalist, evangelical, and all other conservative Christians, and even social conservatives of all religious persuasions.

The fundamentalist phenomenon
This formation of a separate identity is deemed necessary on account of a perception that the religious community has surrendered its ability to define itself in religious terms. The "fundamentals" of the religion have been jettisoned by neglect, lost through compromise and inattention, so that the general religious community's explanation of itself appears to the separatist to be in terms that are completely alien and fundamentally hostile to the religion itself.

Some fundamentalist movements, therefore, claim to be founded upon the same religious principles as the larger group, but the fundamentalists more self-consciously attempt to build an entire approach to the modern world based on strict fidelity to those principles, to preserve a distinctness both of doctrine and of life.

[IQ]

The term itself is borrowed from the title of a four volume set of books called The Fundamentals published in 1909. The books were published by the Bible Institute of Los Angeles (B.I.O.L.A. now Biola University), and edited by R.A. Torrey, who was a minister affiliated with the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. Initially the project was funded by Lyman Stewart, president and cofounder of the Union Oil Company of California (currently known as UNOCAL), and cofounder of B.I.O.L.A. The books were a republication of a series of essays that were sent by mail to every minister in the United States. They were called "The Fundamentals" because they appealed to all Christians to affirm specific fundamental doctrines such as The Virgin Birth and bodily Resurrection of Jesus. This series of essays came to be representative of the "Fundamentalist-Modernist Controversy" which appeared late in the 19th century within the Protestant churches of the United States, and continued in earnest through the 1920s.

The pattern of the conflict between Fundamentalism and Modernism in Protestant Christianity has remarkable parallels in other religious communities, and in its use as a description of these corresponding aspects in otherwise diverse religious movements the term "fundamentalist" has become more than only a term either of self-description or of derogatory contempt. Fundamentalism is therefore a movement through which the adherents attempt to rescue religious identity from absorption into modern, Western culture, where this absorption appears to the enclave to have made irreversible progress in the wider religious community, necessitating the assertion of a separate identity based upon the fundamental or founding principles of the religion.

Fundamentalists believe their cause to have grave and even cosmic importance. They see themselves as protecting not only a distinctive doctrine, but also a vital principle, and a way of life and of salvation. Community, comprehensively centered upon a clearly defined religious way of life in all of its aspects, is the promise of fundamentalist movements, and it therefore appeals to those adherents of religion who find little that is distinctive, or authentically vital in their previous religious identity.

The fundamentalist "wall of virtue", which protects their identity, is erected against not only other religions, but also against the modernized, nominal version of their own religion. In Christianity, fundamentalists can be known as "born again" and "Bible-believing" Protestants, as opposed to "mainline", "liberal", "modernist" Protestants. In Islam there are jama'at (Arabic: (religious) enclaves with connotations of close fellowship) fundamentalists self-consciously engaged in jihad (struggle) against the Western culture that suppresses authentic Islam (submission) and the God-given (Shari'ah) way of life. In Judaism fundamentalists are Haredi "Torah-true" Jews. There are fundamentalist equivalents in Hinduism and other world religions. These groups insist on a sharp boundary between themselves and the faithful adherents of other religions, and finally between a "sacred" view of life and the "secular" world and "nominal religion". Fundamentalists direct their critiques toward and draw most of their converts from the larger community of their religion, by attempting to convince them that they are not experiencing the authentic version of their professed religion.

Many scholars see most forms of fundamentalism as having similar traits. This is especially obvious if modernity, secularism or an atheistic perspective is adopted as the norm, against which these varieties of traditionalism or supernaturalism are compared. From such a perspective, Peter Huff wrote in the International Journal on World Peace:

"According to Antoun, fundamentalists in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, despite their doctrinal and practical differences, are united by a common worldview which anchors all of life in the authority of the sacred and a shared ethos that expresses itself through outrage at the pace and extent of modern secularization."

Controversy over use of the term
The Associated Press' AP Stylebook recommends that the term fundamentalist not be used for any group that does not apply the term to itself. Many scholars, however, use the term in the broader descriptive sense to refer to various groups in various religious traditions, and the massive five-volume study The Fundamentalism Project published by the University of Chicago takes this approach. In popular discussions, the term fundamentalist is frequently used improperly to refer to a broad range of conservative, orthodox, or militiant religious movements.

Christian fundamentalists, who generally consider the term to be positive when used to refer to themselves, often object to the placement of themselves and Islamist groups into a single category. They feel that characteristics based on the new definition are wrongly projected back onto Christian fundamentalists by their critics.

Many Muslims protest the use of the term when referring to Islamist groups, and object to being placed in the same category as Christian fundamentalists, whom they see as theologically incomplete. Unlike Christian fundamentalist groups, Islamist groups do not use the term fundamentalist to refer to themselves. Shia groups which are often considered fundamentalist in the western world generally are not described that way in the Islamic world.

Basic beliefs of religious fundamentalists
For religious fundamentalists, sacred scripture is considered the authentic, and literal word of their religion's god or gods. Fundamentalist beliefs depend on the twin doctrines that their god or gods articulated their will precisely to prophets, and that followers also have a reliable and perfect record of that revelation.

Since a religion's scripture is considered the word of its god or gods, fundamentalists believe that no person is right to change it or disagree with it. Within that though, there are many differences between different fundamentalists. For example, many Christian fundamentalists believe in free will, that every person is able to make their own choices, but with consequence. The appeal of this point of view is its simplicity: every person can do what they like, as much as they are able, but their god or gods will bring those who disobey without repentance ("turning away from sin") to justice. This is made clear by the commands of Jesus in the New Testament concerning any kind of revenge ("Vengeance is Mine, sayeth the Lord" for one). The Judaist belief is similar, but they do not believe that it is wrong to take vengeance. The fundamentalist insistence on strict observation of religious laws may lead to an accusation of legalism in addition to exclusivism in the interpretation of metaphysical beliefs.

[IQ]

Christian views
Main article: Fundamentalist Christianity
Self-described Christian fundamentalists see the scripture, a combination of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, as both infallible and historically accurate. The New Testament represents a new covenant between God and human beings, which is held to fulfill the Old Testament, in regard to God's redemptive plan. On the basis of this confidence in Scripture, many fundamentalist Christians accept the account of scripture as being literally true.

It is important to distinguish between the "literalist" and Fundamentalist groups within the Christian community. Literalists, as the name indicates, hold that the Bible should be taken literally in every part. English language Bibles are themselves translations and therefore not a literal word-for-word rendering of the original texts; the King James Version is notable, which while poetic, uses arcane language. Literalism can also encompass only believing one translation of the Bible, usually the KJV, is valid for use.

Many Christian Fundamentalists, on the other hand, are for the most part content to hold that the Bible should be taken literally only where there is no indication to the contrary. As William Jennings Bryan put it, in response to Clarence Darrow's questioning during the Scopes Trial (1925):

"I believe that everything in the Bible should be accepted as it is given there; some of the Bible is given illustratively. For instance: 'Ye are the salt of the earth.' I would not insist that man was actually salt, or that he had flesh of salt, but it is used in the sense of salt as saving Ebba's people."

Still, the tendency toward a literal reading of the Bible is criticized by mainline Protestant scholars and others.[4] [5] [6] .

According to anthropologist Lionel Caplan,

"In the Protestant milieu of the USA, fundamentalism crystallized in response to liberals' eagerness to bring Christianity into the post-Darwinian world by questioning the scientific and historical accuracy of the scripture. Subsequently, the scourge of evolution was linked with socialism, and during the Cold War period, with communism. This unholy trinity came to be regarded as a sinister, atheistic threat to Christian America...Bruce [Chpt. 9 of Caplan 1987] suggests that to understand the success of the Moral Majority, an alliance between the conservative forces of the New Right and the fundamentalist wings on the mainly Southern Baptist Churches, we have to appreciate these fears, as well as the impact of a host of unwelcome changes - in attitudes to 'morality', family, civil and women's rights, and so on - which have, in the wake of economic transformations since the Second World War, penetrated especially the previously insular social and cultural world of the American South." (Caplan 1987: 6)

The term fundamentalist has historically referred specifically to members of the various Protestant denominations who subscribed to the five "fundamentals", rather than fundamentalists forming an independent denomination. This wider movement of Fundamentalist Christianity has since broken up into various movements which are better described in other terms. Early "fundamentalists" included J. Gresham Machen and B.B. Warfield, men who would not be considered "Fundamentalists" today.

Over time the term came to be associated with a particular segment of Evangelical Protestantism, who distinguished themselves by their separatist approach toward modernity, toward aspects of the culture which they feel typify the modern world, and toward other Christians who did not similarly separate themselves. Examples of things that fundamentalists might believe important to avoid are modern translations of the Bible, alcohol and recreational drugs, tobacco, popular music (often including Christian contemporary music), the use of instruments in worship, dancing, "mixed bathing" (men and women swimming together), gender-neutral or trans-gender clothing and hair-styles, and clothes that are immodest, i.e. show an excessive amount of flesh. Such things might seem innocuous to the outsider, but to some fundamentalists they represent the leading edge of a threat to the virtuous way of life and the purer form of belief that they seek to protect and to hold forth before the world as an example. Many fundamentalists accept only the King James Version translation of the Bible and study tools based on it, such as the Scofield Reference Bible.

Because of the prevalence of dispensational eschatology, some fundamentalists vehemently support the modern nation of Israel, believing the Jews to have significance in God's purposes parallel to the Christian churches, and a special role to play at the end of the world.

The term, fundamentalist, is difficult to apply unambiguously, especially when applied to groups outside the USA, which are typically far less dogmatic. Many self-described Fundamentalists would include Jerry Falwell in their company, but would not embrace Pat Robertson as a fundamentalist because of his espousal of charismatic teachings. Fundamentalist institutions include Pensacola Christian College, and Bob Jones University, but classically Fundamentalist schools such as Fuller Theological Seminary and Biola University no longer describe themselves as Fundamentalist, although in the broad sense described by this article they are fundamentalist (better, Evangelical) in their perspective. (The forerunner to Biola U. - the Bible Institute of Los Angeles - was founded under the financial patronage of Lyman Stewart, with his brother Milton, underwrote the publication of a series of 12 books jointly entitled The Fundamentals between 1909 and 1920.)

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Jewish views
Main article: Jewish fundamentalism
Most Jewish denominations believe that the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible or Old Testament) cannot be understood literally or alone, but rather needs to be read in conjunction with additional material known as the Oral Torah; this material is contained in the Mishnah, Talmud, Gemara and Midrash. While the Tanakh is not read in a literal fashion, Orthodox Judaism does view the text itself as divine, infallible, and transmitted essentially without change, and places great import in the specific words and letters of the Torah. As well, adherents of Orthodox Judaism, especially Haredi Judaism, see the Mishnah, Talmud and Midrash as divine and infallible in content, if not in specific wording. Hasidic Jews frequently ascribe infallibility to their Rebbe's interpretation of the traditional sources of truth.

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Mormon views
Main article: Mormon fundamentalism
Mormon fundamentalism is a conservative movement of Mormonism that believes or practices what its adherents consider to be the fundamental aspects of Mormonism. Most often, Mormon fundamentalism represents a break from the brand of Mormonism practiced by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), and a return to Mormon doctrines and practices which adherents believe the LDS Church has wrongly abandoned, such as plural marriage, the Law of Consecration, the Adam-God theory, blood atonement, the Patriarchal Priesthood, elements of the Mormon Endowment ritual, and often the exclusion of Blacks from the priesthood. Mormon fundamentalists have formed numerous sects, many of which have established small, cohesive, and isolated communities in areas of the Western United States.

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Islamic views
Main articles: Islamic fundamentalism and Islamism
Muslims believe that their religion was revealed by God (Allah in Arabic) to Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam, the final Prophet delivered by God. However, the Muslims brand of conservatism which is generally termed Islamic fundamentalism encompasses all the following:

It describes the beliefs of traditional Muslims that they should restrict themselves to literal interpretations of their sacred texts, the Qur'an and Hadith. This may describe the private religious attitudes of individuals and have no relationship with larger social groups.
It describes a variety of religious movements and political parties in Muslim communities.
As opposed to the above two usages, in the West "Islamic fundamentalism" is most often used to describe Muslim individuals and groups which advocate Islamism, a political ideology calling for the replacement of state secular laws with Islamic law. The more radical of these Islamists may advocate violent overthrow of secular states, or even Islamist terrorism.
In all the above cases, Islamic fundamentalism represents a conservative religious belief, as opposed to liberal movements within Islam.

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"Non-Abrahamic" religions
Some argue that the religious idea of fundamentalism is limited to "Abrahamic religions", and have connected the phenomenon specifically to the notion of revealed religion.[citation needed] However, the answer to the question, Who is a fundamentalist? is in the eye of the beholder. It is not uncommon for detractors to apply the fundamentalist label to Heathens or virtually anything else religious, describing an attitude rather than a self-perception or a doctrine.

Buddhism
H.H. the Dalai Lama has agreed that there exist also extremists and fundamentalists in Buddhism,[2] arguing that fundamentalists are not even able to pick up the idea of a possible dialogue.[2]

The Japanese Nichiren sect of Buddhism, which believes that other forms of Buddhism are heretical, is also sometimes labelled fundamentalist. However, Nichiren Buddhism contains influences from Shintoism and a strongly nationalistic streak that would disqualify it from being fundamentalist in the strictest sense.

At the height of the Dorje Shugden Controversy Robert Thurman claimed: "It would not be unfair to call Shugdens the Taliban of Tibetan Buddhism" referring to the Muslim extremists of Afghanistan, who believe in swift and brutal justice.[3] A statement which was rejected by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, founder of the NKT, arguing: "This really is a false accusation against innocent people. We have never done anything wrong. We simply practise our own religion, as passed down through many generations.";[4]

David N. Kay argued in his doctoral research that the New Kadampa Tradition (aka NKT) fit into the criteria of Robert Lifton’s definition of the fundamentalist self.[5] Inken Prohl stated: "Kay’s argument shows that, due to the NKT’s homogenous organizational structure, its attempts to establish a uniformity of belief and practice within the organization, and an emphasis on following one tradition coupled with a critical attitude toward other traditions, the NKT fits into Lifton’s category of “fundamentalism”. Kay describes how struggles for control of NKT’s institutional sites and NKT’s repressed memory of its institutional conflicts both contribute to NKT’s later 'fundamentalist' identity."[6] However Prohl states also: "Although this observation presents a convincing and challenging observation of a mechanism at work in Buddhist organizations in the West, I would hesitate to characterize, as Kay does, such organizations as 'fundamentalist' due to the vague and, at the same time, extremely political implications of this term.

"Militant atheism"
"Miltant atheism" has been criticised as being 'fundamentalist' because of its aggressive criticism towards theism[citation needed]. For example, when Albania under Enver Hoxha declared itself an "atheist state", it was deemed by some to be a kind of "Fundamentalist Atheism" and where Stalinism was like the state religion which replaced other religions and political idealogies. Any one practising a non-Stalinist religion or setting up a different political party would be sent to prison[citation needed].

In The Trouble With Atheism, Rod Liddle has criticised atheism in that it can be dogmatic and intolerant. He criticised Peter Atkins and Richard Dawkins as Britain's fundamentalist atheists for their dogmatic intolerance to theists. Lord Winston has made similar comments[citation needed].

'Faith and Reason online' has criticised the Rational Response Squad as uneducated, dogmatic, aggressive and thoroughly ignorant of theology

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Arguments in favor of fundamentalist positions
Fundamentalists claim both that they practice their religion as the first adherents did and that this is how religion should be practiced. In other words, a Christian ought to believe and practice as those who knew and followed Jesus during his time on earth. A Muslim ought to give the same consideration to the followers of Muhammad. Analogous arguments can be made for most systems of religious belief. Fundamentalists justify this belief on the idea that the founders of the world's religions said and did things that were not written down; in other words, their original disciples knew things that we don't. For fundamentalist Christians, this claim is justified by the Gospel of John, which ends with the statement "there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written." (John 21:25, NKJV) Further justification is adducted from the static or falling attendance of many liberal or reformed congregations, from the scandals that have struck, for example, the Roman Catholic church, and from the increasing difficulty of distinguishing between religiously liberal and avowedly secularist views on such matters as homosexuality, abortion and women's rights.

JohnRenesch 16:45, 9 June 2007 (UTC)==Criticism of fundamentalist positions== Many criticisms of fundamentalist positions have been offered. One of the most common is that some claims made by a fundamentalist group cannot be proven, and are irrational, demonstrably false, or contrary to scientific evidence. For example, some of these criticisms were famously asserted by Clarence Darrow in the Scopes Monkey Trial.

Another possible criticism is that the rhetoric of a fundamentalist group offers an appearance of uniformity and simplicity; yet within the group, one actually finds different texts of religious law that are accepted or each text has varying interpretations. Consequently, a fundamentalist group is observed to splinter into many mutually antagonistic subgroups. They are often as hostile to each other as they are to other religions.

A criticism by sociologist of religion Tex Sample is that there is no such thing as a Muslim, Jewish, or Christian Fundamentalist. Rather, a fundamentalist's fundamentalism is their primary concern, over and above other denominational or faith considerations.[9]

A criticism by Elliot N. Dorff: "In order to carry out the fundamentalist program in practice, one would need a perfect understanding of the ancient language of the original text, if indeed the true text can be discerned from among variants. Furthermore, human beings are the ones who transmit this understanding between generations. "Even if one wanted to follow the literal word of God, the need for people first to understand that word necessitates human interpretation. Through that process human fallibility is inextricably mixed into the very meaning of the divine word. As a result, it is impossible to follow the indisputable word of God; one can only achieve a human understa