Why do bad things happen to good people?

[RedWine]

Why do bad things happen to good people? That is the age-old question. What are some of the answers people give?

- God is trying to teach us something. - God is getting back at us for something we did or did not do. - There is no God and things just happen. - The list goes on and on.

The truth is that many of those bad things did not have to happen. If that is so, who is the cause? Let us clear up one thing first.

God is not to blame.

In Acts 10:38 it says God anointed Jesus with the Holy Ghost and with power and went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil.
In John 10:10 it states that the thief comes not, but to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

The two verses above indicate that there are two forces at work. God is the good one and the devil (Satan) is the bad one. You need to remember that.
So, how do you get in on God's blessings and avoid Satan's attacks?
The first thing you need to do is to become a Christian.

This does not mean just going to church and being a good person. That is not what makes you a Christian. You need to believe, accept and confess Jesus as your personal Savior.

Then you need to read your Bible to become as close to God as possible. You need to realize that God is not just force out there; he is a spirit person that you can become near to.

He wants you to talk to Him and He wants to talk with you. That is what prayer is.

When you read the Bible you will begin to learn God's way of doing things. When you start actually doing things God's way, you will become blessed.

Hebrews 11:6 says - But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Deuteronomy 30:19 states - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

The entire 91st Psalm talks about the safety provided to those that abide in Him.

God does protect and reward people, but it doesn't come automatically. God will tell you things to do, places to go, what to say.

When you follow his directions it will work toward your safety.

God has given us everything we need to live safely, so when something bad happens look inward to what you may need to change, but never blame God.

What you think about this question ?

[sooz]

You can also ask... why do good things happen to bad people?

Not much of the explanation above applies, does it?

[indian_blues]

Bad things happen becoz we expect bad things to happen.

[mike435]

well if you belive in a all knowing all seeing and just g-d than nothing bad or good happens it is soly a just act

and if you belive in an afterlife
than maybe what you see as "bad" is acctualy good, this way the persons sins souls or whatever is being cleansed or readied for the world to come.
it could be that the person's soul is here in this world again
and needs to be perpared or is not complete yet

[indian_blues]

which religion interpretation is that mike? :-?

[mike435]

which religion interpretation is that mike? :-?

jewish

[maryam9]

heres something that was forwarded onto me -
its kinda related to this thread
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes we wonder, "What did I do to deserve this?" or "Why did God have to do this to me?" Here is a wonderful explanation! A daughter is telling her Mother how everything is going wrong, she's failing algebra, her boyfriend broke up with her and her best friend is moving away.

Meanwhile, her Mother is baking a cake and asks her daughter if she would like a snack, and the daughter says, "Absolutely Mum, I love your cake"

"Here, have some cooking oil," her Mother offers. "Yuck" says her daughter.

"How about a couple raw eggs?" "Gross, Mum!"

"Would you like some flour then? Or maybe baking soda?" "Mum, those are all yucky!"

To which the mother replies: "Yes, all those things seem bad all by themselves. But when they are put together in the right way, they make a wonderfully delicious cake!

God works the same way. Many times we wonder why He would let us go through such bad and difficult times. But God knows that when He puts these things all in His order, they always work for good! We just have to trust Him and, eventually, they will all make something wonderful!

God is crazy about you. He sends you flowers every spring and a sunrise every morning.

Whenever you want to talk, He'll listen. He can live anywhere in the universe, and He chose your heart.

[donsaeid]

jewish

but jewish beliefe says also if a person does a sin their family in 7 generation will be punished for that!

[sooz]

but jewish beliefe says also if a person does a sin their family in 7 generation will be punished for that!

If there is a God, isn't he supposed to be loving and caring? Punish 7 generations down? Nah... I don't think so.

I don't believe that if there is a God, the he directs your life. You direct your life. You make the choices. And sometimes other people make choices that hurt you. Sometimes you get sick because you get sick. No hidden meaning or agenda. Just genetics, environment and other factors.

Great book: When Bad Things Happen To Good People by Rabbi Harold S. Kushner. One of the best books I've ever read on the subject. It's a somewhat more logical than emotive view, but it makes sense to me... more than the idea that a loving, caring God would deliberately make people suffer - whether to make them learn something or to punish or for whatever other reason. Worth a read for a different point of view.

sooz

[mike435]

but jewish beliefe says also if a person does a sin their family in 7 generation will be punished for that!

lol
true i forgot about that i heard somthing about that i dont know exactly what it means or is

thanks for bringing it up

[zubin]

This is actually a very simple question. The answer is this: Bad people are good at making bad systems that benefit them most.

What's interesting enough is that for the first time good people have not only realized this but have the opportunity to fight and make the global and locals systems in a way that benefits everyone justly.

[donsaeid]

If there is a God, isn't he supposed to be loving and caring? Punish 7 generations down? Nah... I don't think so.

I don't believe that if there is a God, the he directs your life. You direct your life. You make the choices. And sometimes other people make choices that hurt you. Sometimes you get sick because you get sick. No hidden meaning or agenda. Just genetics, environment and other factors.

Great book: When Bad Things Happen To Good People by Rabbi Harold S. Kushner. One of the best books I've ever read on the subject. It's a somewhat more logical than emotive view, but it makes sense to me... more than the idea that a loving, caring God would deliberately make people suffer - whether to make them learn something or to punish or for whatever other reason. Worth a read for a different point of view.

sooz


4. moses book 16, 31-35

4. moses book 16, 45-50

4. moses book 14, 18 (i have a persian translation!: it says that yahova is this and that and in the end of verse it says that sins of fathers will be used against their sons until 3rd and 4th generation!)

It seems in Torah and other holy books God loves killing! even in christian bible! it is more like a action book instead of a holy book!

God i know and believe in is almighty and one! but i will never understand the way he is doing thing in!

[maryam9]

Bad things happen becoz we expect bad things to happen.
ok, but what about someone who is born with an incurable disease?

difficult question...:confused:

[donsaeid]

ok, but what about someone who is born with an incurable disease?

difficult question...:confused:

i think that is answered by verse in torah! last verse in my post!

[sooz]

God i know and believe in is almighty and one! but i will never understand the way he is doing thing in!

I'm just not so good at blind faith. I wasn't there when the bible was written. Was it divinely inspired or not? I don't know. Some historians say that Christianity grew out of a number of 'religions' at the time, incluiding one the Gnostic sects and those who worshipped the Egyptian god Isis. When these other religions were banned, only Christianity and Judaism survived. Remember, this was a time of superstition, folklore and very little scientific knowledge. It was a time when governments and spiritual leaders needed to control the masses. It was also a 'flat-earth' society, and you know how long that theory survived!

I also ask myself why a loving God would want to make all this bad stuff happen to people, whether it's written somewhere or not. Karma? Achieving a higher place in heaven? Just bcause we don't know for sure, doesn't mean we should believe or not believe. But for me, it pushes me to keep asking. Could we have it all wrong? Maybe... maybe not.

I've been asking these questions for 38 years and still have not heard a reasonable explanation.. but that's for me. I respect whatever you believe and your right to do so. I do have a problem when that belief inspires people to kill others - then I'm full of anger and questions.

sooz

[mike435]

This is actually a very simple question. The answer is this: Bad people are good at making bad systems that benefit them most.

What's interesting enough is that for the first time good people have not only realized this but have the opportunity to fight and make the global and locals systems in a way that benefits everyone justly.

but how do you decide who is "good" and who is "bad"

is bad the side that you want to be on but you are not

so once the good fight the bad than do the good people become bad because noe they are controling the system that is defying theme

also what is there that says who ever gains the position of good in the system wouldnt indukge in it

[maryam9]

4. moses book 16, 31-35

4. moses book 16, 45-50

4. moses book 14, 18 (i have a persian translation!: it says that yahova is this and that and in the end of verse it says that sins of fathers will be used against their sons until 3rd and 4th generation!)

It seems in Torah and other holy books God loves killing! even in christian bible! it is more like a action book instead of a holy book!

God i know and believe in is almighty and one! but i will never understand the way he is doing thing in!
1. what do u mean?
2 - thats true, we cannot understand our Creator.

[mike435]

from askmoses.com

Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People?
by Rabbi Moshe Miller
http://www4.askmoses.com/files.html/8590825/image%7Cgif/talmudic-scholar.gif Many great minds, religious and not yet religious, Jewish and Gentile, have attempted to answer this troubling question, but the fact that it continues to be asked indicates that none of the answers have laid the question to rest.In attempting to provide a response, it is worth examining the very first question we find in Scripture, the question G-d poses to Adam: “Where are you?”.1 (http://www.askmoses.com/article.html?h=552&o=395813#footnote1) Commentaries point out that Adam was not being prompted to reveal his geographic location, which was anyway known to G-d, but to enter into a dialogue with his Creator. The question G-d poses to man, “where are you?” – what are you doing? what have you accomplished? where are you headed? etc. – reverberates throughout history, and is posed to every person individually. And the response must of necessity be an individual one, for you are being asked to enter into a dialogue with your Creator.
As G-d says to Adam, “Go and plant. True, there are thorns and thistles, but you shall eat the herbs of the field when you plant and toil.”
Similarly, but in an inverse way, man poses the question to G-d – “why do You, G-d, who is just and merciful, allow bad things happen to good people?” In other words, “G-d, where are You?” The question may take the form of an accusation, a cry of pain, an expression of submission, a philosophical query, and even despair. But this question too, stems from a desire to enter into a dialogue with G-d, in one form or another.“Why” may never become clear to us – we may never be able to answer the question why bad things happen, because the human mind cannot comprehend the Divine Mind. But a lengthy treatise explaining all the whys and wherefores is not the purpose of the question in any event. G-d’s answer to the cry of the suffering human soul is, “I am with you.” And the result of this is, as G-d says to Adam, “Go and plant. True, there are thorns and thistles, but you shall eat the herbs of the field when you plant and toil” – your suffering can bring benefit to you and to the world.


Let us not try and find the meaning of suffering, but rather make suffering meaningful.



http://www.askmoses.com/article.html?h=552&o=395813



if you click on the link you can read comments and arguments other have wrote

[maryam9]

I came across this and thought it was interesting/thought-provoking.
(All quotes are from the Bahai holy writings)


THE MEANING OF SUFFERING

"I swear by My life! Nothing save that which profiteth them can befall my loved ones. To this testifieth the Pen of God, the Most Powerful, the All-Glorious, the Best-Beloved."

Why do we Suffer?

Suffering comes to us for two reasons – either as a consequence of our own actions or as a test sent by God for our spiritual development. The suffering we bring on ourselves can be physical suffering: "If a man eats too much, he ruins his digestion. If a person gambles he will lose his money." Or it can be sadness or remorse caused by the way we have behaved or have treated others. Following the laws of God will free us from both these kinds of suffering: "The source of all good is trust in God, submission unto His command, and contentment with His holy will and pleasure."

Suffering Develops the Soul

"Grief and sorrow do not come to us by chance, they are sent by the Divine Mercy for our own perfecting."

"Everything in life ministers to our development. Our lesson is to study and learn... Tests are either stumbling-blocks or stepping-stones, just as we make them."

"Anybody can be happy in the state of comfort, ease, health, success, pleasure and joy; but if one be happy and contented in the time of trouble, hardship and prevailing disease, it is the proof of nobility."

"Men who suffer not, attain no perfection. The plant most pruned by the gardeners is that one which, when the summer comes, will have the most beautiful blossoms and the most abundant fruit."

"Those who suffer most, attain to the greatest perfection..."

The Purpose of Life

Our purpose here on earth is to develop our souls so that we are ready for the next world. Tests and difficulties are necessary for this development.

"The one in pursuit of anything must undergo difficulties and hardships until the object in view is attained and the great success is obtained."

"The same test comes again in greater degree, until it is shown that a former weakness has become a strength..."

"The mind and spirit of man advance when he is tried by suffering. The more the ground is ploughed the better the seed will grow, the better the harvest will be. Just as the plough furrows the earth deeply, purifying it of weeds and thistles, so suffering and tribulation free man from the petty affairs of this worldly life until he arrives at a state of complete detachment. His attitude in this world will be that of divine happiness... Through suffering he will attain to an eternal happiness which nothing can take from him..."

"To attain eternal happiness one must suffer. He who has reached the state of self-sacrifice has true joy. "

"Be not in despair, but rather smile by the mercy of your Lord; and be not sorrowful when meeting with worldly difficulties and depressions, for they pass away – and thine shall be immortality during ages and centuries, times and cycles."

Innocent Children

"As to the subject of babes and infants...who are afflicted...for those souls there is a recompense in another world...For those souls that suffering is the greatest mercy of God."

Patience and Acceptance

If we do not accept the problems which life presents us, and do not use them as means for our development, we will cause ourselves much unnecessary suffering.

"Be patient under all conditions, and place your whole trust and confidence in God."

"God hath never burdened any soul beyond its power."

"O Son of Spirit! Ask not of Me that which we desire not for thee, then be content with what we have ordained for thy sake, for this is that which profiteth thee, if therewith thou dost content thyself."

"...Tests are benefits from God, for which we should thank Him."

This is from a Bahá'í prayer:
"I beg of Thee, O my God,...O Thou in whose hands are both the visible and invisible kingdoms, to ordain that my choice be conformed to Thy choice, and my wish to Thy wish, that I may be entirely content with that which Thou didst desire, and be wholly satisfied with what Thou didst destine for me by Thy bounteousness and favour."

Live in the Spiritual World

"Today, humanity is bowed down with trouble, sorrow and grief, no-one escapes; the world is wet with tears; but thank God, the remedy is at our doors. Let us turn our hearts away from the world of matter and live in the spiritual world! It alone can give us freedom! If we are hemmed in by difficulties we have only to call upon God, and by His great Mercy we shall be helped...When our thoughts are filled with the bitterness of this world, let us turn our eyes to the sweetness of God's compassion and He will send us heavenly calm!"

"A man with his thoughts in this (spiritual) Kingdom knows perpetual joy. The ills all flesh is heir to do not pass him by, but they only touch the surface of his life, the depths are calm and serene."

Bahá'u'lláh's son, 'Abdu'l-Bahá, was in prison for 40 years because of His beliefs:
"But, thank God, during all those 40 years I was supremely happy. Every day, on waking, it was like hearing good tidings, and every night infinite joy was mine. Spirituality was my comfort, and turning to God was my greatest joy."
"I was happy in imprisonment. I was in the utmost elation, because I was not a criminal. They had imprisoned me in the path of God...I was happy that – praise be to God! – I was a prisoner in the cause of God, that my life was not wasted, that it was spent in divine service."

The Example of the Messengers of God

Each Messenger of God suffered for the sake of bringing His Message to humanity. Each One sacrificed His self totally to the will of God. Bahá'u'lláh described His own sufferings as follows:

"The Ancient Beauty hath consented to be bound with chains that mankind may be released from its bondage, and hath accepted to be made a prisoner within this most mighty stronghold that the whole world may attain unto true liberty. He hath drained to its dregs the cup of sorrow, that all the peoples of the earth may attain unto abiding joy, and be filled with gladness. This is of the mercy of your Lord, the Compassionate, the Most-Merciful."

"I sorrow not for the burden of My imprisonment. Neither do I grieve over My abasement, or the tribulation I suffer at the hands of mine enemies. By My Life! They are My glory, a glory wherewith God hath adorned His own self, would that ye knew it!"

The Desire for Suffering

If we really understand the purpose of our suffering in this life and how to use it, we will reach the stage where we long for tests in order to show our love for God and to draw closer to Him:

"The true lover yearneth for tribulation even as doth the rebel for forgiveness and the sinful for mercy."

"O Son of Man! If adversity befall thee not in My path, how canst thou walk in the ways of them that are content with My pleasure? If trials afflict thee not in thy longing to meet Me, how wilt thou attain the light in thy love for My beauty?"

"O Son of Man! My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy. Hasten thereunto that thou mayest become an eternal light and an immortal spirit."

[indian_blues]

ok, but what about someone who is born with an incurable disease?

difficult question...:confused:

they inherit their parents bad karma.

What is good and bad? I say there is nothing good or bad exists.

[maryam9]

ok, but what about someone who is born with an incurable disease?

difficult question...they inherit their parents bad karma.

What is good and bad? I say there is nothing good or bad exists.is this a hindu belief?
so are u saying that hindus believe that the outcome of a child's life is dependent upon the previous actions of the the parents (which therefore influence parents' karma)

[sooz]

they inherit their parents bad karma.

Why?

I think much of what we "inherit" are belief systems, which we sometimes don't question enough. True for me... may not be true for you.

sooz

[indian_blues]

is this a hindu belief?
so are u saying that hindus believe that the outcome of a child's life is dependent upon the previous actions of the the parents (which therefore influence parents' karma)

yes right.

[mike435]

ok, but what about someone who is born with an incurable disease?

difficult question...:confused:

today i was at the memorial of a firends sister she was only 14 died of sickness

the question on my mined and i am sure manys mined was
were is the justice in that? why would an all just all loving g-d do something like this?

perty much this is what the rabbi(jewish sepharadic orthodox)
was saying that it wanst her past or future life
he was saying that according to jewish philosophy everyone has a soul and that soul is ont its journy to g-d
and that she probably did have a good life in the past and that she was here on a mission and for her it was complete

anyways poit is it is not a game of revenge and counter revenge
i dono what i am saying i am just really ****ing pissed
we live in some ****ed up world when an innocent beautiful girl dies at natures hand

[sooz]

according to jewish philosophy everyone has a soul and that soul is ont its journy to g-d
and that she probably did have a good life in the past and that she was here on a mission and for her it was complete

I discovered this very thing in Jewish philosophy many years ago, and after talking to my Rabbi after my father died 16 years ago, I was amazed at how similar it is to some Eastern philosophies and New Age philosophies that I was involved in at the time.

The talk with that Rabbi impressed me so much, that it prompted me to study more about it. We (Jewish people) also believe in reincarnation, which many of us who are educated in Judaism in Sunday Schools, do not know. It's all very much part of Hassidic Jewish/Spiritual philosophy.

I living life, we have choice and we have divine providence (Hebrew: hashgakhah pratis). Then we have our soul's purpose here - can be karma related, can be soul-purpose related - all of this with some things free will and the bigger life-purpose divinely directed, supposedly.

Simple Karma:
Jewish Torah (Bible - Old Testament) (and I beleive similar principles in Sharia Law - someone correct me if I'm wrong, please):
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Moses, Exodus 21:24

Also, someone mentioned that Karma goes through generations. Here's the original:

You shall not bow down to [idols] or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me. Moses, Exodus 20:5

(Disclaimer: Writing about this doesn't mean I believe or don't believe in it.)

Sooz

[mike435]

I discovered this very thing in Jewish philosophy many years ago, and after talking to my Rabbi after my father died 16 years ago, I was amazed at how similar it is to some Eastern philosophies and New Age philosophies that I was involved in at the time.

The talk with that Rabbi impressed me so much, that it prompted me to study more about it. We (Jewish people) also believe in reincarnation, which many of us who are educated in Judaism in Sunday Schools, do not know. It's all very much part of Hassidic Jewish/Spiritual philosophy.

I living life, we have choice and we have divine providence (Hebrew: hashgakhah pratis). Then we have our soul's purpose here - can be karma related, can be soul-purpose related - all of this with some things free will and the bigger life-purpose divinely directed, supposedly.

Simple Karma:
Jewish Torah (Bible - Old Testament) (and I beleive similar principles in Sharia Law - someone correct me if I'm wrong, please):
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Moses, Exodus 21:24

Also, someone mentioned that Karma goes through generations. Here's the original:

You shall not bow down to [idols] or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me. Moses, Exodus 20:5

(Disclaimer: Writing about this doesn't mean I believe or don't believe in it.)

Sooz

wow you are very knowlegble
yea but it was when i satrted looking into Judaism's and noticed how it incorporates many things that other relligions focuse on, considering it came before all the religions except
arastrious from iran.

[sooz]

wow you are very knowlegble

Heheh, (in my very baby Persian...) moteshakeram doost azizam, but I'm just good at doing research on the Internet about things I *think* I know.

It's been an interest for many years to look into all sorts of religions and philosophies, much of which I find interesting but not much of which I believe.

Even though I'd be considered an agnostic, I'm still most comfortable in the Jewish/Hassidic Spiritual traditions, but not the religious dogma. It's as close as I can get to some of the New Age stuff I've been involved in over the years.

Interestingly I also became a Sanyassin (Osho) but I'm also not much of a fan these days. There are as many Sanyassins in my area as there are Jewish people (including about 800 Israelis). And to rival them, there are the Jewbus (Jews by birth but practicing Buddhists). A great book is "The Jew in the Lotus", the true story of when several prominent American Jews had an audience with the Dali Lama. Check out Jubus on Wikkipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubu

Anyway, I'm sure this is getting right off-topic. Sorry!

To get even more off-topic, if you are in any way interested in some of the more modern interpretations of Judaism, have a look into Jewish Renewal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Renewal

Started by an ex-Lubavitcher, who was also influenced by Sufi traditions and Buddhism, it's evolved into something rather interesting, with meditation, Hassidic traditions, lots of music and so on, in a not so orthodox, egalitarian framework. They talk much about tikkun olam - healing the world, which is central to the Kabbalistic traditions of Judiasm. But that's a whole other discussion, I think.

Sooz

[maryam9]

today i was at the memorial of a firends sister she was only 14 died of sickness

the question on my mined and i am sure manys mined was
were is the justice in that? why would an all just all loving g-d do something like this?

perty much this is what the rabbi(jewish sepharadic orthodox)
was saying that it wanst her past or future life
he was saying that according to jewish philosophy everyone has a soul and that soul is ont its journy to g-d
and that she probably did have a good life in the past and that she was here on a mission and for her it was complete

anyways poit is it is not a game of revenge and counter revenge
i dono what i am saying i am just really ****ing pissed
we live in some ****ed up world when an innocent beautiful girl dies at natures hand
that is also a bahai belief.

that the purpose of our life on this earth is to prepare ourselves for the next world. and one way to prepare yourself is to pray. prayer is like food for the soul.

[mike435]

that is also a bahai belief.

that the purpose of our life on this earth is to prepare ourselves for the next world. and one way to prepare yourself is to pray. prayer is like food for the soul.

thats awsom same here regardig praying
it is especialy true about saying a blessing over food
say when you eat the apple the physical apple nurishes your physical body and the blessing over the apple nourishes your soul

and the list continues for everything
from eating to going to bathroom to having sex to buying something new

by the way thanks to all who are contributing to this thread this has been very good for me

[maryam9]

mike, what are you originally? i remember before you said you were interested in judaism, because u said you "found yourself", so that means you were something else before. are you a christian iranian? i know a few people who are middle eastern and are christian (if u dont want to reply publicly then u can PM me).

[indian_blues]

mike is a jew. :)

[mike435]

mike, what are you originally? i remember before you said you were interested in judaism, because u said you "found yourself", so that means you were something else before. are you a christian iranian? i know a few people who are middle eastern and are christian (if u dont want to reply publicly then u can PM me).


i am jewish

but i had have doughts and didnt really belive in the concept of divinity that much

but than i dono you live and you see a unique harmony in the world that has to be something other than and more than just an "accident"
and this harmony is represented in every thing from the way we walke to the way the solar system is arranged the way nature workes gravity the whole package

even now my belife in g-d is not concrete but compared to my other beliefs it is the most concrete wel except the two state solution

[indian_blues]

what abt nationality dude?

[mike435]

what abt nationality dude?
oh as i said again

i am the son of the jewish mother married to the Iranian who has an american wife

they are all pulling at me

[Dokhtare_Malous]

bekhatere inke good people inghadr badbakhtan o bad shansan ke hamishe in balaha sare adamye khooob miad