Logic V. Language

[Dokhtar Bandari]

When it comes to religion which one is the authority? I believe that logic is more important since language deals with contingent and conventional and logic encompasses the necessary and the universal.

If we are to unite with God, as we most certainly can and that is our purpose here on this earth, are we to rely on our logic or language???? I mean does God work through our logic or what we read in our particular language and believe it to be the truth?

I like to keep the focus of this discussion on the relationship between ordinary language and language about God, it has far broader implications, and leads to a diversity of views on how and why.

Please participate. TIA

[maryam9]

am totally brain-dead today
Please can you re-phrase the main question because im not sure what youre trying to say

When it comes to religion which one is the authority? I believe that logic is more important since language deals with contingent and conventional and logic encompasses the necessary and the universal.

Are you asking which one (logic Vs language) has more influence on our conscience when we are making choices?


Am not really sure what you mean by "language"
thanks

[Rasputin]

logic

a system of reasoning ,nothing else .

[Dokhtar Bandari]

a system of reasoning ,nothing else .

Red Wine jaan, first of all thank you for participating, a rare occasion I must say.
Additionally, you say that Logic is a system of reasoning... aummm no duh azizam, henceforth my question, which system of reasoning has the most influence on our being who we are when it comes to God and Religion?

If by per chance you are suggesting that we should go beyond reason, be it Logic or Language... then you are an enlightened person who has achieved its true self. But what are the chance of that for rest of the humanity.

So while here in this dream we call our world, which system of reasoning will get us closer to perhaps where you are?

[Dokhtar Bandari]

am totally brain-dead today
Please can you re-phrase the main question because im not sure what youre trying to say


Are you asking which one (logic Vs language) has more influence on our conscience when we are making choices?


Am not really sure what you mean by "language"
thanks

Ok, let me see if I can explain this so you may understand. As you may very well know most of the religious books are not their original language meaning someone took the message from its original language and translated it to where common people will understand. Thant includes, Quran, Jewish scriptures and Christian bible.

For example the original language of Jesus was Aramaic, which does not exist anymore (powers to be made sure of that). Now someone took those writings which is generally known as ACTS and Psalm and wrote down in a common language of people which they wanted to influence with certain messages. Their intentions at this discussion is irrelevant.

Same with Quran, when it was translated to Arabic. And Jewish scriptures which was accumulation of teaching of Moses in scroll forms and some rabies took it and translated it to a common language, the true teaching are called Septuagints which means 70, it took 70 Jewish scholars to translate the teaching closest to its original messages of Moses.

So, then we have Latin translation and Greek translations. Which litterally can either screw things up or make them better. What I mean by that? Take for example the infamous Lords pray in Christian Faith:
Latin:
Our Father who Art in Heavens
Hallowed by thy name
Thy kindom come
Thy will be done... so on and so forth

GreeK:
Our Father who must be being in Heavens
Thy name must be being hallowed
They kindom must be being coming
Thy will must be being done....

Do you see the difference? In Latin language there is no present and absolute standing order V. the Greek language which is all present and firm.

So, now the person (s) who were translating all of these messages, scrolls and so on, did they employ Logic or merely use the language to translate? And how about us as common people when we read these thing, do we employ Logic and say well this is what it mean in my understanding or do we just look at the language and simply say in my language that's what that means? And which one is more important and more influential?

Hope this helps.

[Dokhtar Bandari]

I thought of another way of puting this question which may be easier to digest.

Take our language for example (Persian). When we say "ghorbone cheshat beram"... If you are Persian and if you are then you most certainly possess Persian way of reasoning, you will understand what it means. However, if you translate that to a Latin based language, such as English... "I slay myself for your eyes"... don't sound so romantic anymore, does it???? As a matter of fact if you are trying to use terms of endearment toward a loved one who is not Persian, I would not say that at all. Because he or she may have "2 legs and borrow to other" to get away from you...lol

Do you see it now? A literal translation of any document from its original language based solely on language to language can not be the accurate proclamation of that document. Because by necessity the translator and the translatee and what is being translated must have ONE and the same logic.

So... do we understand God through Logic or Language?

[maryam9]