WHY the facination?

[mike435]

[Khorsheed]

i think the huge fasicnation about zionism .. is that the whole movement started by taking place that was not theirs .. the interst of Israel is about the inhumaties that occured during the movement of zionism . .
dearest its not about the Jewish . . its about what the majorty did ..

[mike435]

i think the huge fasicnation about zionism .. is that the whole movement started by taking place that was not theirs .. the interst of Israel is about the inhumaties that occured during the movement of zionism . .
dearest its not about the Jewish . . its about what the majorty did ..

listen lets say ok to this
and it were true
but you have to agree with that their are still alot more worse movemts that
are engaged in much more worse acts

my question is why israel
i totaly get that man see zionism and jewish as diffrent i get that
but why the over porportion attention
for example why do so many more people know more about the attributes of zionism and not about the atributes of say almost antything else
say the mosadegh inccodent
or i dont knwo so much more
say incodent on the border of kosovo, problems in chechniya russian iran
do you see wat i am saying

[mike435]

for this question step out of what the truth or what the right thing is leav that for latar
foouse on why the overwealming urge about israel
this is not a defense or an atack on israel or zionisom this is just why this facination that happens to be israel and zionism

[Khorsheed]

yes i can see what your saying mike .. the world is focusing on this movement .. but people all around the world tend to do that . . and there is alot of other things the world should focus on !! i agree to that . .

[mike435]

wow no responce to this i really want to see a disscustion on this on this topic

[zubin]

It is a very important geopolitic position. The situation can be said to be a major trigger for all those other problems you mentioned. For instance, its false ideological dichotomy against Islam, deceptive claim of ideological superiority, and inhumane and irresponsible justification for intervention against Muslim people is fuel for Islamic extremism and conservativism which causes human rights problems.

[mike435]

It is a very important geopolitic position. The situation can be said to be a major trigger for all those other problems you mentioned. For instance, its false ideological dichotomy against Islam, deceptive claim of ideological superiority, and inhumane and irresponsible justification for intervention against Muslim people is fuel for Islamic extremism and conservativism which causes human rights problems.

jubin i dont agree with alot of the stuff you ssaid above and i dont want to debaate theme
for the sake of this converstion i willl agree
lets say all that stuff is true
their are still alot more political religious hotspots that can trigger biger problams

example the pop a christian religious leader desecrating islam i think that is bigger triger than any israel palastinian conflict

i think american control over muslim oil is a much bigger political triggrer
american and british profitiaring of arab oil with out owner ship should be a much bigger triger and more urgent

look infact israel does not force its idiologys outside its boarders

all the while you have westerners doinging from many diffrent channels from religious conversion to creating political pupper faction groups

look man it still dosent make sence

[mike435]

look you even see this on college campuses

what is the faciniation that people first protest israeli wrong doing than wrong doings happening in their own very country

this is even true in the western world
with out muslim goups leading it either

[zubin]

man mike, you proved to me that you're mind is washed with bias when I refuted you like 1000 times in our previous logical debate. I'll say it again, you may even be right. But you certainly put up a facade in your attempt to prove it.

[zubin]

and if you remember, a discussion with you was one of the worst experiences of my life, while you learned how to use logic when you talked with me.

Your welcome. Now use your new talent: BE LOGICAL.

[mike435]

and if you remember, a discussion with you was one of the worst experiences of my life, while you learned how to use logic when you talked with me.

Your welcome. Now use your new talent: BE LOGICAL.

look jubin fine you are right ok

now prceed to the question

why the faciniation

on the global arena israels stuff is very small and people make a big deal out of it
butbig stuff they dont make big deal about it
i am not saying they shouldnt but why do they make a bigdeal coparativly about israel

example if israel by accident causes the death of 19 civillians and their is a prob and condemnation
you would expect the smae thing when hundreds are killd in other countries by the hands of respective government

i dont care here who is right or wrong dont let that stop you from progressing ahead to to my question i am again askig why is their such big faciniation

[zubin]

i think american control over muslim oil is a much bigger political triggrer
american and british profitiaring of arab oil with out owner ship should be a much bigger triger and more urgent

look infact israel does not force its idiologys outside its boarders

all the while you have westerners doinging from many diffrent channels from religious conversion to creating political pupper faction groups

look man it still dosent make sence

It does force its ideology outside of its borders. Its occupation against Palestine is based on assumptions that with compromise, savage Muslims will destroy Israel. If Israel were to win the war against Palestinians it will have been a victory against Islamic culture, and the alternative liberal democracy would be much easier to force onto them. If it weren't for Israel's direct confrontation with the culture and independence of Muslims, the US wouldn't have given themselves the right to enter Iraq or interfere with Iran like their daddy's. I remember along these lines you admitted that the neo-cons are using Israel for their own aims. So just listen to yourself.

You can easily see how ideology plays a big role in the oppression against Palestinians, and perhaps the whole Muslim world, when Israel gains blind support based on its ideology. Both the US and Canadian governments blindly support Israel because they say Israel is better than Islamic culture. The explicitly condone the violences used by Israel against innocent people on this very basis Mike.

This justifiably builds a culture of extremism and/or conservatisim in the Muslim world causing human rights problems in Iran and political violence in Sudan. Being confronted centrally based on their ideology, beliefs and culture, which clearly is done by Israel and its supporters, verbatim, some Muslim factions have a reason to try to expand and protect Islam in the most extreme and conservative way. If there was equality, on the other hand, there would be the passage of human rights and cultural exchange instead of conservatism, expansion and extremism.

[Khorsheed]

if i may join . . .can someone tell me .. do you think this would ever end. . the fascination ?

[zubin]

Your interjection is most welcome. we get too much of back and forth between me and mike. my point is that discussion should go step by step logically so we can actually get our facts straight, which shows which are arguments are based on fact vs. assumption.

In response to your question, if you are serious about it, the idea is that as long as Palestinians are abused, the fascination should not end. We should become more and more fascinated by it until there is a just peace between Pal. and Isr. (i.e. one based on facts), because they are the fuel to the fire of the whole conflict between Islam and the far West. This means that the issue goes far beyond the abuse against Palestinians. It could be aruged to be fueling conflicts such as those in Sudan, as well as the conservativism vs. human rights conflict in other parts of the Muslim world.

If you accept the idea that the issue goes beyond the number of murdered Palestinians, then you are disagreeing with mike on an issue of fact. Only one person can be right. Either the issue goes beyond I-P or it doesnt. It seems clear to be it goes far, far, far beyond and warrants "fascination", and there are many, well-developed, empirically-clear reasons why that is true.