Innocent Victims of war

[golgol85]

I dont know if you have seen this site or not. It was sent to me by a friend and I though i would pass it on. While some may say Israel has lost the war, I am not sure based on the pictures on this site that Israel has lost the war, but i have lost respect for those in power in Israel after seeing these pictures. I pride myself in being unbiased and openminded, but seeing these pictures made my blood boil. how can humans do something like this to other humans?

http://user.uni-frankfurt.de/~vatandas/isrleb.html

I look forward to hearing what you all have to say about this. I am sure you have seen many pictures like these, but tell me it still effects you regardless of how many you have seen. I want you to understand that I am not picking sides here, i think both sides are wrong. But when i see innocent children killed, then my heart hurts, a physical pain in that these innocent children are involved in something that they may not even fully comprehend, they are paying for the mistakes of those in power. they will never be able to live or voice their opinion. unfortunately, many are silenced because of the selfishness of a few.

[donsaeid]

All victims of wars are innocent.

Guys who fight are safe in their bomb shelters and villas.

[mike435]

[golgol85]

I am sure that Israel has innocent children killed too, and it no doubt pains my heart the same as the death of the lebanese children. But my problem lies with the numbers killed. I am sure that the number of lebanese killed outdoes the number of Israeli's killed (children or otherwise). I ended up researching the portrayal of facts by Israeli and lebanese and other media for a class and i wont bore you with the details of my paper but i do know many more lebanese were killed. I am not one to believe an eye for an eye, because the whole world would be blind with that mentality, but the amount of deaths makes me feel that the Israeli's feel that their people are worth more and so one Israeli death necesitates the death of multiple lebanese in compensation.

i have no problem with israel defending itself, but look at who israel is fighting. israel is supposed to be fighting the hezbollah, not the people of lebanon. who should it be killing? the hezbollah, not children. dont sit here and tell me they dont know what they are doing, they full well do. so you are telling me its okay to kill hundreds of children for 2 soldiers? i am not placing a price on human life, but i would rather have 2 adults killed than hundreds of children, in fact i would be willing to be one of the 2 adults killed. protecting your citizens at the cost of killing another country's citizens is not fair game.

bringing iran into this is understandable, but if israel has a problem with iran as a supporter of hezbollah (and when i say iran in this context i mean the islamic republic and not the people of iran), then why doesnt israel bomb the shit out them too? oh wait, that might just happen within the next couple of weeks. Israel has the US backing it, which is why it is doing whatever it wants. I never respected the islamic republic or its ideology, but what you are saying is the equivalent of saying the US should erradicate poverty before having gone into iraq, but that didnt stop the US and its not stopping iran either. iran will meddle where it wants just as the US did (again i dont want you thinking i am supportive of iran or the US meddling) before thinkinf of solving its own problems.

personally i agree with you in the end, in war there are no winners (unless you are the US going into iraq and robbing the iraqis of their precious oil), but in this case the war is for a different reason that ironically doesnt involve money. both sides have lost, but you have to see who is the bigger loser, if you look at death toll, you are bound to realize that lebanon was the bigger loser.

[golgol85]

All victims of wars are innocent.

Guys who fight are safe in their bomb shelters and villas.

of course all victims are innocent, thats what makes them victims. the ones who should be getting punished and killed are hardly ever punished or killed. and why is that? i dont know. i find it hard to believe that Israel doesnt know where the hezbollah is and cant blow them to smitherines, yet it seems to know exactly where the hezbollah is hiding its bombs: in civillan homes which are bombed to prevent hezbollah from attacking Israel or in ambulances. and the destruction of infrastructure, like roads because the hezbollah use them is quite disturbing. ina hamash bahoonas, keshvari ke be ghole khodesh midoone bombhaye hezbolla koja ghayem mishe kheili khoob midoone khode hezbollah kojas, faghat khodesho zadeh be oon rah. when will we stop kidding ourselves?

[donsaeid]

until there is "khesasat" dar afkar va batne ensan vojod dare. hala har no'o khesasat.

[mike435]

of course all victims are innocent, thats what makes them victims. the ones who should be getting punished and killed are hardly ever punished or killed. and why is that? i dont know. i find it hard to believe that Israel doesnt know where the hezbollah is and cant blow them to smitherines, yet it seems to know exactly where the hezbollah is hiding its bombs: in civillan homes which are bombed to prevent hezbollah from attacking Israel or in ambulances. and the destruction of infrastructure, like roads because the hezbollah use them is quite disturbing. ina hamash bahoonas, keshvari ke be ghole khodesh midoone bombhaye hezbolla koja ghayem mishe kheili khoob midoone khode hezbollah kojas, faghat khodesho zadeh be oon rah. when will we stop kidding ourselves?

gogol85
first i want you to stop thinking that israels objectives or aims are killing of civilians that is not what there in for ther is no logical reason for anyone to that. Nothing at all
Before its bobbardment it pass out flyers and sends out messages via raido and tv (when they inflitrait it electronicly) warnign the redidents to get out.

also do you know how they look for there targets and how they get rid of it?
ther patroling planes notice a launch site or "active target" once they notice it they send missles shells or iaf fighter jets hit with a air to ground missle.
this is were you have to say **** hezbola for having there launch sites in the balconys of people or right after they fire a missle they go and hide in an apartment building were innocent people are taking shelter.

[mike435]

hey also i have seen some these videos of when the IAF takes out these hezbollah targets i am sure you can fined it on youtube or google video. the ones i saw were ussually email attachments if i fined any i will post it.

by the way i will be meeting some IDF soldirs who have just returnd from lebonan if i am able to i will try to ask them some of the questions you guys post here

[mike435]

[donsaeid]

we have a special thread for Olmert. You Could post it there. PLZ respect thte displine of forum

[mike435]

sure but this was not about omlert as it was more about voice from the nation of israel. I thoght it would be appropriate to get a voice from Israel. and see were they stand.

but if you want me to take it ill be hapy to repost it under olmert

[Sepideh_UK]

OH MY LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEM PIX were terrifying.

Oh God!!

Thanx for the pix, it shows a really side of the story.

[mike435]

i know

i was only able to look at 4-5 of theme before i closed the screen

[golgol85]

gogol85
first i want you to stop thinking that israels objectives or aims are killing of civilians that is not what there in for ther is no logical reason for anyone to that. Nothing at all
Before its bobbardment it pass out flyers and sends out messages via raido and tv (when they inflitrait it electronicly) warnign the redidents to get out.

also do you know how they look for there targets and how they get rid of it?
ther patroling planes notice a launch site or "active target" once they notice it they send missles shells or iaf fighter jets hit with a air to ground missle.
this is were you have to say **** hezbola for having there launch sites in the balconys of people or right after they fire a missle they go and hide in an apartment building were innocent people are taking shelter.

I think that you do have a bias in this arguement and that is quite fine. bias does instigate the ability to exchange different viewpoints. I will say this, i may not believe what you think to be true, but i also will not tell you to think a certain way so i appreciate it if you would do the same.

you speak of logic, politics and war dont understand logic, so lets not talk of logic please. israel is doing what it is doing as a retaliatory act for the kiddnapping of their two soldiers. when i see more civillians than hezbollah killed, i am forced to think that israel is only trying to get even with lebanon (at any cost, even the killing of innocent children). actions speak louder than intentions, so quite frankly i dont care about israels intentions. When i look at disfigured children, i see the intentions of israel of being the inflicting of pain and sorrow on a country and at that they are succeeding. You speak as if i havent been following this entire issue, i told you before i did an extensive project on this issue. The issuing of flyers may actually happen, but then the israelis block certain roads and prevent the lebanese from getting out of the areas that will be bombed. how nice of them to send a memo before they demolish people's home, how humane.

they look for targets, is this the same way the us looked for weapons of mass destruction in iraq? why do people believe everything they are told? when the US went into iraq, bush claimed that iraq has weapons of mass destruction up the wazoo, but the reality turned out to be quite different. Now the israelis are saying oh we know there are hezbollah "active targets" and they demolish a country, and then it will be said "whoops, nope there were no active targets for hezbollah, we just bombed for the sake of bombing." i dont see israel as being any better than the us in this case. i love how israelis put the blame on hezbollah.

i told you this once before and i will say it again, neither side has a right to be doing what its doing. israel and hezbollah should just go to some remote desert and bomb the shit out of eachother, but killing innocent civillians on either side is intolerable.

[golgol85]

as for the speech by ehud, the first paragraph speaks volumes. he is saying i know we are killing people, but we will continue to do so. well thats cuz he has a "human heart". I dont want to waste my time getting upset and responding to it, but when i feel up for it ill read through it and discuss my thoughts on that as well.