Holocaust

[donsaeid]

[donsaeid]

حال سوال اين جاست که این تفکر نژاد پرست، خود را تحت چه پوششی نزد افکار عمومی پنهان کرد تا توانست مجوز قتل عام نژاد پرستانه مسلمانان در فلسطين را بگيرد؟
غیر از این بود که اینها با آن رقم 6 ميليون برای خود يک گارد مظلوم نمايانه تهيه کردند.
در غير اين صورت چرا نه شما و نه دیگران حاضر نیستيد مستنداتی که در مورد آن 6 میلیون وجود دارد، ارائه دهيد؟
شما درخواست من را اجابت نکردید که آن 6 میلیون را با کدام مستندات پذيرفته ايد؟
این تبلیغات قطعاً پوششی است تا تفکرات نژادپرستانه صهیونیست برای افکار عمومی روشن نشود.

صادق زیباکلام:
شايد بهتر باشد برای پاسخ به آقای سليمی نمين ابتدا ببينيم چرا در غربی که آزادی عقیده و بیان وجود دارد به امثال آقای سلیمی نمین اجازه طرح چنين ادعاهائی را نمی دهند؟ مسئله این است که در اروپا بويژه در اروپای قرون وسطی به بعد ضدیت شديدی با یهودیان وجود داشت.
يهوديان همواره در طول تاریخ به عنوان اقلیتی منفور، مورد ظلم و ستم ملت های اروپائی بوده اند. به عنوان مثال اگر در اروپا طاعون و وبا می آمد، يهوديان را مسبب آن می دانستند. گذشته از آنکه يهوديان به عنوان قاتلین حضرت عیسی نزد اروپائيان مسيحی بشدت منفور بودند. بعضاً رهبران متعصب اروپا یا اسقف های راديکال در آن منطقه، یهودی ها را از کشور و قلمرو خود بيرون می کردند.
اینها ضديت با یهود بود. در حقيقت ضديت با یهودیت نوعی نژاد پرستی است. درست است که در اروپا یک نوع آزادی افکار و اندیشه وجود دارد، ولی شما نمی توانید در فرانسه وسط خیابان بگوئید اعراب از نژادی پست هستند يا اعراب وحشی اند. اینها مصداق نژاد پرستی است.
بنابراین ضدیت با یهود در اروپای فعلی نوعی نژاد پرستی تلقی می شود. کسانی که در اروپا منکر مسئله هلوکاست می شوند، عموماً دارای تمایلات ضدیهودی هستند. به همين دليل در اروپا نسبت به اين قضيه خيلی حساس هستند.
همچنين در اروپا معتقدند که بايد از جنایات و اشتباهات خود درس بگیریم. يعنی اگر منکر کشتار 6 میلیون يهودی در جنگ جهانی دوم شويم و آن رقم را ساخته و پرداخته صهیونیست ها اعلام کنيم اين بدآن معناست که درس و عبرت لازم را از نسل کشی نگرفته ايم. لذا با تائيد آن جنايات بايد به بشريت گوشزد کنيم که آلمان ها ظرف 5 سال چه جناياتی در حق یهوديان مرتکب شدند تا اين جنايات دیگر تکرار نشود.
بنابراين پشت اين قضيه دو منطق وجود دارد:
یکی اینکه نژادپرستی در غرب جرم محسوب می شود. يعنی به شما اين اجازه را نمی دهند تا با تکيه بر آزادی افکار و عقايد بگوئید سیاه پوست ها نژادی پست هستند و دوم اينکه از اين تراژدی آئينه عبرتی برای بشريت بسازند.
به همين دو دليل است که در بسیاری از کشورهای اروپائی زير سوال بردن هلوکاست جرم تلقی می شود.

داریوش سجادی:
در تعقيب صحبت های آقای زیباکلام در خصوص پيشينه تاريخی یهود ستیزی در قرون وسطی اخیراً با یکی از محققینی که در این زمینه کار کرده، صحبت می کردم که ايشان هم به نکات جالبی در مورد ریشه های ضديت با یهود در قرون وسطی اشاره داشت.
به گفته ايشان صرف نظر از اتهام يا اعتقاد مسيحيان به کشته شدن مسيح توسط يک يهودی اما عوامل جغرافيائی و فرهنگی هم در تعميق نفرت مسيحيان از يهوديان مدخليت داشت با اين توضيح که قاره اروپا از نظر جغرافیائی قاره سردی است که کمتر آفتاب دارد. این سرد بودن هوا در دوران قرون وسطی که جامعه هنوز از امکانات زندگی مرفه شهری محروم بود باعث شده بود تا اورپائی های مسیحی کمتر رغبتی به حمام داشته باشند به همین دلیل است که می بینیم در اروپا بخصوص فرانسه صنعت ادکلن سازی از قدمتی ديرينه برخوردار است چرا که اروپائيان مسيحی ترجيح می دادند ناپاکی و بدبوئی بدن خود را که از ناحيه کراهت از استحمام بدليل برودت هوا ناشی می شد، با امکانات ديگر از جمله مايعات معطر و ادوکلن مرتفع کنند.
کمااینکه صنعت کلاه گيس هم يکی از صنايع آن دوران است که اشراف فراری از حمام برای استتار موهای ناپاک و آلوده خود از آن بهره می بردند. نمونه آن را در فيلم های سينمائی مربوط به مردان و زنان اروپائی قرون وسطی بارها مشاهده کرده ايم.
البته این ناپاکی تعلق به مسیحیان داشت چرا که برخلاف ايشان يهوديان مانند مسلمانان قائل به طهارت بوده و بر اساس آموزه های دينی خود همچون مسلمانان مقيد به تنزه خود با آب بوده و می باشند.
اما استنکاف جامعه مسیحی قرون وسطی از طهارت و شستشو بعضاً منجر به آن می شد تا اين قوم بر خلاف يهوديان مبتلا به بیماری های عفونی شوند.
اين در حالی است که مسيحيان، ابتلای خود و عدم ابتلای يهوديان را به حساب دست داشتن يا موجبيت جامعه يهود در ترويج و اپيدمی چنان بيماری ها و اپيدمی های عفونی عليه خود می گذاشتند و به همين دليل جامعه يهود مستمراً در معرض اتهام و آزار جامعه مسيحی قرون وسطی قرار داشت.
بنا به گفته اين محقق در ريشه يابی دلائل يهود ستيزی تاريخی در اروپا در کنار عوامل مذهبی و تاريخی و سياسی بايد به چنين آداب و سنن و هنجارهائی نيز توجه کرد.

عباس سلیمی نمین:
نخير . اين طور نيست. اولاً اگر آقای زیباکلام از ابتدا این گونه وارد بحث می شدند من قطعاً دیگر ادامه نمی دادم. آقای زیباکلام می فرمایند هر کس مخالف آمار هولوکاست باشد، نژادپرست است. بنا بر چنين منطقی طبیعتاً وضع من هم مشخص می شد و دیگر به عنوان یک نژادپرست، خفه خوان می گرفتم. من متاسفم که آقای زیباکلام همان استدلال بی منطق طرفداران صهیونیسم در اروپا را در اينجا تکرار می کنند. يعنی هر کس به خودش جرات دهد که بگوید برای ارقام کشتار ادعائی 6 ميليون يهودی، مستنداتی ارائه دهید، با چماق نژادپرستی بر سرش بکوبند و طبیعتاً نيز همه باید خفه شوند و همان آمار را بدون هیچ ادله دقیق و محقق پسند، بپذیرند.
آقای زيباکلام؛ این که استدلال نیست. ما قرار است بحث منطقی بکنیم آن وقت شما می فرمائید هر کس این آمار را زیر سوال ببرد، ریشه در نژادپرستی دارد. خیلی از یهودی ها امروز با صهیونیسم مخالف هستند. بسیاری از خاخام های یهودی از صهیونیست برائت می جویند چون صهیونیست را یک تفکر نژادپرستانه می دانند. این گونه نیست که هرکس با بازی صهیونیست ها در اروپا مخالف باشد، نژادپرست است.
پس بحث علمی چه معنائی دارد؟

صادق زیباکلام:
ضدعرب، ضدایرانی هم نژادپرست است.

عباس سلیمی نمین:
اصلاً اینطور نیست که در اروپا، ضدعرب یا ضد ایرانی نژادپرست باشد. می توانید به من بگوئید در طول تاریخ اروپا کدام تفکر ضدعرب یا ضدمسلمان را محاکمه کردند که شما می فرمائید ضدعرب یا ضد مسلمان هم در اروپا نژادپرست محسوب می شود؟

صادق زیباکلام:
اگر مسلمان بودن را به عنوان یک نژاد بگیرید و ضد آن نژاد یا فرهنگ مانند سیاه پوستان تبلیغ شود، این امر در اروپا جرم تلقی می شود.

عباس سلیمی نمین:
این همه نژادپرست ضد آسيائی در اروپا وجود دارد، کدام يک از آنها محاکمه شده اند؟

صادق زیباکلام:
آنها که شما می گوئيد، همان قدر که ضدعرب و ضد خارجی يا ضد آسيائی هستند به همان اندازه هم، ضد یهودی اند.

عباس سلیمی نمین:
شما به عنوان یک استاد دانشگاه بفرمائید کدام فرد در اروپا به اتهام نژادپرست بودن علیه مسلمان ها يا عرب ها و يا ایرانی ها محاکمه شده است؟

داریوش سجادی:
در تعقيب صحبت های آقای سليمی نمين، نمونه کاریکاتورهای اهانت آميز مطبوعات اروپا نسبت به پیامبر اسلام که منجر به هيچ واکنش منصفانه ای از جانب سيستم های قضائی اروپا نشد می تواند موضوعيت پيدا کند.
اما صرف نظر از اين مجادلات مايلم آقای سليمی نمين به اين پرسش هم پاسخ بگويند که پيشتر اشاره کرديد نازيسم و صهيونيسم در کشتار يهوديان در جنگ جهانی دوم برخوردار از هماهنگی بودند.
می شود در مورد آن هماهنگی توضيحات بيشتری بدهيد؟

عباس سلیمی نمین:
قبل از توضيح در مورد آن هماهنگی اجازه بدهيد که تصديق کنم که مثال کاريکاتورهای اهانت آميز به پيغمبر اسلام مثال درستی است. به کليت یک ملت توهین می شود و آنها را پست و وحشی و تروریست معرفی می کنند. این اگر نژادپرستی نیست، پس چیست؟
من و آقای زیباکلام در انگلیس درس خوانده ایم و ديده ايم که در آنجا نژادپرستی به وفور وجود دارد. اما شما یک نفر را در انگلستان به من معرفی کنید که به عنوان تفکرات نژادپرستانه علیه مسلمان ها محاکمه شده باشد.
ما باید بحث مستدل داشته باشیم. من به عنوان یک تاریخ نگار که نژادپرست هم نیستم از شما خواهش کردم تا ادله تان در صحت آمار کشتار 6 میلیون يهودی را ارائه فرمائيد. اگر اروپائی ها تاکنون نتوانسته اند سندی در درستی اين ادعا ارائه دهند، حال شما که دفاع می کنید، ارائه کنید.
اما در مورد هماهنگی صهيونيست ها با نازی ها نيز بايد بگويم که صهیونیست با نازیسم در ابتدا و قبل از جنگ جهانی دوم همکاری جدی داشت. اگر آقای زیباکلام در این مورد کمی تاریخ را مطالعه کنند درمی یابند که اصولاً انگليسی ها در پيدايش نازیسم و صهيونيسم نقش جدی داشتند.
ايشان نازیسم را در برابر مارکسیسم خلق کردند هر چند در آينده این معادله گریبانگیر صهیونیست و کشورهای غربی شد و رابطه ميان آنها را بشدت تيره کرد. اما آنچه که بحث محوری من است، تاریخ سازی سیاسی است که در ارتباط با ملت ما و ملت های اروپائی صورت گرفته. ما امروز بايد با جرات و بدون پروای متهم شدن به نژادپرستی همین تاریخ سازی را زير سوال برده و حداقل مدارک و ادله ادعاهی آن را مطالبه کنيم.
آقای زيباکلام شما می گوئید این کار را کرده اید، من هم قبول دارم ولی بگوئید این آمار از کجا آمده؟ این حق مسلم هر انسانی است. ما که با صهیونیست ها مشروط بر آنکه برای ادعای خود ادله بدهند، ضدیت خاصی نداريم. مسلماً در آن صورت ما هم خواهیم پذیرفت که چنین جنایتی در این ابعاد صورت گرفته.

داریوش سجادی:
آقای زیباکلام اجازه بدهيد در اينجا يک سوال تاريخی از جنابعالی بپرسم. سوالی که بواقع تعلق به خودتان داشت و در ابتدای برنامه آن را مطرح کرديد مبنی بر آنکه چرا قومی مانند آلمان که برخوردار از یک پیشینه تاریخی قابل افتخار بوده، ناگهان در جنگ جهانی دوم دست به چنین جنایت و سبوعيتی حال در ابعاد بيشتر يا کمتر از 6 ميليون می زند؟

[donsaeid]

[donsaeid]

خیلی از آمریکائی ها هم معتقدند به نفع منافع ملی آمریکا نیست تا به بهای ضدیت با اعراب و جهان اسلام چنين گسترده به حمایت از اسرائیل برخیزد.
اما پرسش اينجاست که چرا یهودی ها و لابی های یهود در آمریکا تا این حد نیرومند شده اند؟ البته اين بحث مفصلی است. خلاصه اش این است که ظرف سه دهه گذشته در حدود دو یا سه میلیون افغانی به ایران آمدند اما هیچ نفوذی در ایران پيدا نکردند. چون از اقشار و لایه های پائین افغانستان بودند و اکثراً در ايران کار گل می کردند. کاری که ایرانیان ننگ انجام آن را داشتند

اما آن چیزی که در مورد آمریکا اتفاق افتاد این بود که یهودی هائی که در دهه های پایانی قرن 19 و اوایل قرن 20 به آمریکا مهاجرت کردند، درست نقطه مقابل افغانی هائی بودند که وارد ايران شدند. يعنی ايشان اکثراً تحصیل کرده و روشنفکر بودند، لذا خیلی سریع توانستند در مراکز قدرت و مراکز اقتصادی و تجاری و صنعتی آمریکا نفوذ کنند.
شما وقتی آمار می گیرید می بینید در جامعه 250 ميليون نفری آمريکا تنها 5 یا 6 میلیون یهودی وجود دارد. لذا متناسب با اين جمعيت انتظار می رود تنها 1% از نمایندگان کنگره یا سناتورها در ايالات متحده یهودی باشند. اما عملاً اینطور نیست و کسر قابل توجهی از یهودیان در کنگره، سنا، دانشگاه ها، مراکز صنعتی ـ تجاری و وزارت خارجه آمريکا مستقر هستند. شما وقتی به این مراکز قدرت و صنعتی و تجاری ومالی نگاه می کنید تصور می کنید که حداقل در آمریکا باید 70 یا 80 میلیون یهودی موجود باشد.

داریوش سجادی:
در واقع می خواهيد بگوئيد با نفوذی که لایه های یهود در مراکز قدرت آمريکا پیدا کرده اند، اينک توانسته اند سکان دیپلماسی خارجی آمریکا را تحت کنترل خود بگيرند؟

صادق زيباکلام:
دقيقاً منظورم همين است.

عباس سلیمی نمین:
اما آقای زیباکلام چند موضوع را با هم مخلوط کردند که درست نبود و لازم است من توضيحی بدهم.
ايشان در صحبت شان ماهیت اسرائیل را از صهیونیست جدا کردند در صورتی که اصلاً اینطور نیست. حاکمیت امروز اسرائیل دست صهیونیست هاست. امروز هر بشری چه مسلمان و چه غیر مسلمان بايد در برابر نژادپرستی موضع داشته باشد. نژادپرستی زیبنده بشریت امروز نیست. وظیفه انسانی و دینی ما ايجاب می کند تا در برابر نژادپرستی بایستیم. کمااینکه در برابر نژادپرستی آفریقای جنوبی ایستادیم. به نظر من محل بحث امروز ما این نیست که فلان فلسطینی زیر بمباران است و يا اسرائیل هر روز چه کار می کند.
به عنوان وجدان بشریت در برابر کسانی که روبروی بشریت ایستاده اند و نژادپرستی را ترویج می کنند و برای خود یک حکومت غاصبانه هم ایجاد کرده و غربی ها هم وقیحانه از آن حمایت می کنند، وظیفه ما است که در برابر این پدیده شوم بایستیم حتی اگر مجبور به پرداخت هزینه آن هم باشيم.

[Rasputin]

[Rasputin]

According to archival documents, sporadic newspaper sources, and testimonies of survivors, the majority of the gentiles did not even try to help the persecuted people. There were only a few people who participated actively in the persecution besides the officials and functionaries. Their estimated number is greater, however, than the number of those people who tried to help actively. The photos documenting the deportation show that it takes only a few gendarmeries to march the obedient Jews to the railway station, to the cattle cars. We know from archival documents that after the deportation, the citizens began the looting of the deserted ghettos. In some places they acted defying the martial law; and in other places they had official permission. Obviously, the looters of Kôszeg belonged to the second category, since they happily allowed the taking of pictures. Both the looters and the loot indicate, that in this case, poor people were taking the belongings of other poor people.

Miklós Horthy put an end to the deportation of the Jews on the 6th of July, 1944. The reasons are still not entirely clear. It is possible that his decision was motivated by the landing of the allied forces on the shores of Normandy, or the offensive of the Red Army, or he was afraid that the capital would have been destroyed by a carpet bombing if the Jews of Pest had had been deported. Eichmann had a fit, but without Hungarian help he was not able to continue shipping "raw material" to the death factory of Auschwitz.

Ferenc Szálasi, the leader of the Arrow-Cross Party and the Hungarist Movement came to power with the help of the Germans, after Miklós Horthy, the governor of Hungary, announced that he appealed for cease-fire. The members of his government, when their picture was taken, broke a tradition: they did not wear their Hungarian gala-dress. They put on simple civilian clothes. Maybe they had a premonition concerning their fate: the majority of them would be sentenced to death by the court of the Hungarian People within a period of less than one and a half years.

Nearly 200,000 Jews were terrified in Budapest by the coming into power of Szálasi’s Arrow-Cross men. The troops of the Red Army were not able to liberate the ghetto of Pest until the 18th of January, 1945. Up to then, hundreds of defenseless Jews were murdered by Arrow-Cross men every day as the photos show. Many Jews were tortured horribly before their death, others were simply shot and thrown into the Danube which was filled with drift-ice. They handed over nearly 70,000 Jews to the Germans for forced labor. They worked on the fortification system in the Sub-Alps in order to "protect" Vienna.

In the spring of 1945 Budapest was reduced to ruins as we can see in the photographs. Because of the meaningless war fought, on the Nazis' side nearly one million lives were lost. From 825,000 Hungarian Jews 550,000 died, and some of the returning survivors emigrated within the next few years. Thus, in the place where one of the most flourishing Jewish communities of Middle-Eastern Europe once existed, now only approximately 5,000-70,000 Jews exist.

[Rasputin]

Ohrolruf camp.



Ohrolruf camp.




Strolling people.

[Rasputin]

The secretary general of Germany's Jewish community has declared that the country's tough hate-crime laws are partly "responsible" for the rise of the German far right because they sweep the growing problem of anti-Semitism under the carpet - instead of confronting and defeating it in a frank and open debate.

And in a high profile demand for change in German-Jewish relations, Stephan Kramer, the secretary general of the Zentralrat der Juden in Deutschland (Central Council of Jews in Germany), has also called for a re-think on the country's Holocaust education. In an interview with this reporter, he claimed that in the last 20 years it had gone "terribly wrong" because it had sent a message to young Germans, who were born decades after the Holocaust, that they should be ashamed of their country - causing resentment and an identity vacuum within society which the extremists are exploiting.

In a move which will have repercussions within the Berlin Jewish community, Kramer also harshly criticized some of his own colleagues for claiming that anti-Semitism today reminds them of 1933, dismissing this as "absolutely not true." While stressing that Germans should take anti-Semitism very seriously and "stand up and do something," and saying he had sympathy with Holocaust survivors who were worried about a repeat of the persecution suffered by Jews in the pre-war era, Kramer emphasized that the liberties enjoyed by him and his compatriots today were not comparable to 1933.

The decision of the German Jewish secretary general to call for a completely new vision to combat the racism was timed to coincide with the November 9 anniversary of Kristallnacht and is bound to cause intense debate within the Jewish community.

Kramer's most significant attack was on Germany's hate-crime laws, which he said had caused much of the current problem. "The situation right now has proven that all those laws have been unsuccessful in dealing with the issue," he said. "Not only unsuccessful - to some extent, they are responsible for the fact that we have such a rise in anti-Semitic movement in today's Germany.

"If you had a situation in the last few years where open speech would have been more important than enforced silence, then the problem would have been much more open to the public and people would have been more aware of the problem at hand," he said.

"Instead of that, it was more or less covered up. People did not speak out because they were afraid to be brought in front of a court, but the fire was burning beneath the carpet. To make people immune to the problem, you have to confront them."

Kramer added that the current laws were ineffective: "They (the far right) make those statements anyway. The statements are out there. And since we don't confront those statements with opposing arguments and prove them as wrong, the majority of the population who listen to the arguments take them for granted."

One of Kramer's most sensational calls is for complete reform in the way German society discusses the Holocaust, claiming that society has to be proud of its present and patriotic, but mindful of its past.

"I think, and I know that this is a very harsh judgement, that Holocaust education in the last 20 years went terribly wrong in Germany," he said, adding that young Germans were either completely deferential towards Jews because of the past, or were fed up with hearing about the Holocaust all together.

"If this is the result of the Holocaust education, it was a failure. We have to change it." Declaring that Holocaust education for young people should be based around human interest stories and less around graphic images, he said: "You should confront people with their comparable young people who have been through the Holocaust - for example, the Anne Frank diary. You cannot always show these pictures of Auschwitz. You can't have this confrontation all the time and say: 'Look at the pictures, this confrontation,' and say: 'Look at the pictures of Auschwitz - sit down, suffer and swallow it.'




"What we need to do is say to them: 'How did Anne Frank or comparable schoolchildren, your neighbor maybe who was sitting on the same bench as you in the second or third grade, go through the Holocaust? What happened in the beginning? Jews were denied texts, Jews were denied to walk on the sidewalk, Jews were denied to go to the swimming pool. Jewish lawyers, medics or dentists weren't allowed to practice anymore.'" Asserting that the current education inadvertently had only served to make all Germans feel guilty of crimes committed long before their births, he called for a resurgence in pride in modern Germany, and its divisions from the past. "What I would like people to understand is: 'There is no general German guilt. There is no guilt for all Germans.' Guilt is something very special that is personal - so someone who never lived during this time, who was never born in this time, cannot be guilty.

"I think the lack of identity that most Germans feel today, the lack of patriotism - that causes a vacuum that we have in society, and leads to the situation where the extremists, of the left and the right, are going to march into that vacuum and give people a certain explanation and answers to their lack of identification," Kramer said.

"Why should Germans of the Germany of after '45 not be proud of their country?" he asked. "It is a democratic country, with a parliament, with checks and balances. We should find a definition for that. We, together, as democrats, as Germans. We have a most important task together to give these people an identity."

And in a move designed to develop a positive future-focused vision of Jewish society in Germany, Kramer also criticized recent statements by leading German Jews who claimed anti-Semitic attacks today reminded them of the 1930s. "To say that Germany today is Germany of 1933 would be terribly wrong. It is absolutely not true," he said. "If today is like 1933, I couldn't get on a flight to New York, I would face discrimination from the state in every area, institutionalized discrimination, not just extremist groups.

"In my view, if you call the fire engine when you light a candle five times, then on the sixth time he does not come, and that is what I am worried about," said Kramer. "I reject completely the assertion by some in our community that we are in 1933 all over again."

[Rasputin]

Iran to host Holocaust conference

TEHRAN (AFP)Iran, which disputes that Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis, is to hold a conference next month to allow historians to clarify "hidden angles" of the Holocaust, the foreign ministry has revealed.

The December 11 and 12 international gathering aims to "create opportunities ... for a suitable scientific research so the hidden and unhidden angles of this most important political issue of the 20th century become more transparent," said a statement on the Iranian foreign ministry's website.

Iran's fiercely anti-Israeli regime is supportive of so-called Holocaust revisionists, who maintain that the systematic slaughter by the Nazis of mainland Europe's Jews and other groups during World War II was either invented or exaggerated.

The event is organized by the ministry's Institute for Political and International Studies (IPIS) which has called on researchers and lecturers to take part in the conference.

The gathering, titled "Study of Holocaust: A Global Perspective", has been scheduled to coincide with international Human Rights Day on December 10, it said.

"This conference fully respects the Jewish religion and is away from politicization and propaganda," the statement said.

Topics include "anti-Semitism, Nazism and Zionism: collaboration or animosity; the concept of Holocaust and its roots; views of revisionists; denial or admittance of gas chambers," it added.

"The laws against those who deny Holocaust and killing of the Palestinians," are also to be discussed.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has prompted international anger by dismissing the Holocaust as a "myth" used to justify the creation of Israel.

In mid-August, Tehran staged an international contest of cartoons on the Holocaust, in response to the publication in Western papers last September of controversial caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed.

[Rasputin]

Britons to attend Iran's Holocaust conference

Iran announced yesterday details of a conference questioning whether the Holocaust really happened, prompted by an international outcry a year ago when President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad described the slaughter of six million Jews by the Nazis as "myth" fabricated to justify Israel.
The foreign ministry said "intellectuals and researchers" from 30 countries - including Britain - would attend Studying the Holocaust: An international view, in Tehran on Monday and Tuesday.

The idea for the gathering was dismissed earlier this year as "shocking, ridiculous and stupid" by Tony Blair. Iran responded by inviting him to attend.

A Foreign Office spokesman said it had no record of who was going. "I think the government's views on Iran's comments regarding the Holocaust are well known but it is not up to us who travels to Iran."
Participants will consider documentary, pictorial, physical and demographic evidence in what Iranian officials depict as an academic investigation to establish the Holocaust's authenticity and whether the reported number of victims was exaggerated. Organisers say it will include submissions for and against. It will also focus on the plight of the Palestinians.

The conference will have six panel discussions and an open forum. It will discuss the capacity of Nazi death camps and the impact of the second world war on other national and ethnic groups. Iranian officials say Jewish suffering is played up at the expense of other victims. Manouchehr Mohammadi, the foreign ministry's research and education officer, said the conference was intended as a platform for open discussion of the Holocaust, which Iran claims is denied in the west.

"Our aim is to scientifically study the Holocaust and listen to both sides before reaching a conclusion," Mr Mohammadi said. "This issue has a crucial role regarding the west's policies towards the countries of the Middle East, especially the Palestinians. Iran isn't against or for. We weren't involved in this event so we can be a neutral judge. It is important for us to know the answer so that we can process our stances to issues in this region. If we conclude that the Holocaust happened, we will admit it but we are still going to ask why Palestinians have to pay." He said it would not be a forum for anti-semites or neo-Nazis, and rabbis would attend. "Our policy doesn't mean we want to defend the crimes of Hitler."

Mr Ahmadinejad has called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" and has said its inhabitants should go to Europe or Alaska.

Michael Rosen, of the Community Security Trust, which works to safeguard Jews in Britain, said he was aware of the event but that it was not clear who was planning to attend from the UK. Karen Pollock, of the Holocaust Educational Trust, said: "To hold a state-sponsored conference questioning the truth of the Holocaust is not only deeply disturbing but a huge insult to Holocaust survivors and the families of Holocaust victims."

[Rasputin]

watch the movie about holocaust .

http://www.panahjoo.com/viewtopic.php?p=1397

[Khorsheed]

I think that all forms of killings are wrong .. Not all Jewish deserve to die ..

[Rasputin]

Banalization of history

I am amazed to read Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich slandering of Reza Pahlavi in such reducing terms as if he wants to "bomb Iran" in order to get back his throne. I am as a matter of fact not surprised to read her comments on the Iranian.com for having followed some of her articles for a year or so on other Persian-English websites where she clearly supports nearly all of the current Iranian regime's foreign policies and domestic ones.

It is your right Ms. Ulrich, for after all we are in a freezone: the internet which for the time being is out of control of totalitarian States and maybe even more thanks to psyphon technology. I wonder though if you could express yourself with the same zeal in countires like Iran where blogs are blocked, where bloggers are randomly arrested and journalists dissapear very much like in Chile under Pinochet or Cuba under Fidel Castro.

I am amazed by some so-called self-promoted intellectuals like you who fail to see a bigger danger, not to say picture, than Pahlavi or the American neo-cons who have inevitably failed in the military campaign in Iraq. Americans have recently proved through elections that they will not give George Bush or his foolish administration a second chance to invade Iran or anywhere else on this crazed up fundamentalist-infested region.

Why don't people like you draw attention on what Ahmaninejad is doing to our country Iran and to the young generation of Iranians with no connection with the past, be it Monarchical or even Mossadeghi? Why aren't you shocked by the fact that someone like Ahmaninejad can initiate an international conference of denial of the Holocaust? Maybe your German half (Ulrich?) makes you more indulgent to historical pro-nazi revisionism?

Let's not play with words for it is a DENIAL of the Holocaust under the coverage of so called search for historical truth. THIS IS CRIMINAL. To distort history and claim the contrary to suite the ideological ambitions of Ahmaninejad and his rotten regime that in normal circumstances should be considered as a shame to humanity on all accounts.

The danger of Ahmaninejad's words is not a threat to Europe or any other Western democracy because a return to Nazi ideology in Europe is highly improbable in a near future. Generations of people grew up with the stories of WWII -- be it through living testimonies or films like those by George Steven who filmed the liberation of concentration camps in Nazi Germany.

No, the real threat is that the same ideologies "La Bete Immonde" ("The Abominable Beast") that so many writers and historians described about the Nazi Ideology, will one day resurface not in Europe but in Iran, the land where Human Rights was born and yet anti-semitism seems to have become a banality of words thanks to Ahmaninejad who allows himself to speak in our name and disgrace Iran and Iranians everywhere in the world. We should rather call him AHMAGHI-NEJAD.

Ms. Ulrich, you are targeting the wrong man in the wrong era. Long ago SAVAK was replaced by the SAVAMA in the aftermath of the revolution and its record largely surpasses in quantity and no less cruelty those of the terrible SAVAK. As for Reza Pahlavi, he will at most be around to say how things were better under his father's regime and and promote human rights and democracy as an ideal for his countrymen. I think this is a good thing but ALAS that won't topple the IRI in a near future.

Also you seem to even confuse the Shah's coronation in Golestan Palace in October 1967 with the Persepolis Celebrations of October 1971. The Shah never crowned himself in Persepolis, where did you find that?! Maybe this website will refresh your memory or maybe you are too young to remember or not even born at that time which could explain your confusion.

Your article reminds me of the lack of accuracy that was so common amongst journalists back in 1979 when they would cover the events in Iran and had to rely on translators in Iran who would bullshit them on the Shah's regime and the so-called totalitarian state we lived in.

I am neither a supporter nor a detractor of Reza Pahlavi, I just think that the Pahlavis have always been attacked for the wrong reasons and particularly at the wrong time and mostly by the same type of baseless arguments that prevent people from seeing the Big Picture: That is the banalization of history and a denial of the death of more than 6 million Jews just to satisfy the nuclear and geo-strategic ambitions of a little man and his disgraceful regime that is not representative AT ALL of what Iranians think.

[mike435]

I think that all forms of killings are wrong .. Not all Jewish deserve to die ..

so jews deserv to die? lol

i thoght humanity is all about no human being regradles should die wether what ever
is that why the world is upset why we trat guntanamobay detanies bad
is that why the world is upset why israel uses its might against hezbolah
or best one of all we starlize the needls befor a leathal injection

[Khorsheed]

so jews deserv to die? lol

i thoght humanity is all about no human being regradles should die wether what ever
is that why the world is upset why we trat guntanamobay detanies bad
is that why the world is upset why israel uses its might against hezbolah
or best one of all we starlize the needls befor a leathal injection

Oh no . .i didnt mean that . .!!
i think all kinds of killings should be stopped . . but isreal has done its share of killings ! and i am sorry if you misinterpeted my talk . .maybe i typed it in the wrong manner ! You see mike people tend to judge things from the surface. .its like saying all arabs and muslims are terrirosts. . which is ridiculous, because by saying that your judging something from its surface and it will end by putting you in the bad picture . .same about Jewish . .some did bad. . but some didnt .. so who are we to judge the whole crowd