Eye On Israel

[donsaeid]

good for you for doing that.

and shell isnt racket.

and i said that it is presicion guided not that they are 100% accurate.

loose of innocent life is unacceptable on both sides.

so dont change words thanx

[Sepideh_UK]

Well Said Saeid

[mike435]

good for you for doing that.

and shell isnt racket.

and i said that it is presicion guided not that they are 100% accurate.

loose of innocent life is unacceptable on both sides.

so dont change words thanx

look man i am not trying to intentionaly change words i dont know the diffrance between wepons all i know there is accurat wepons wich they call theme smart bombs, laserguided, gps guided etc and dumb and inaccurate ones like tank shell, and regular bombs, gernade, morted, katusha, etc

[Timsar]

ok since i am in the military here, and i am sure i have more EXP than all of u,

Fisrt: laser guided or not laser guided, by geniva convention, no round bigger than 50 Cal. or 12.7mm is alowed to be shut at a person. aside from that u r not allowed to drop bombs on visible civilans. which israel did that. and does it still.

do not even try to bring up that HB started it, cuz they did not. since 2002 and 2006 israel has taken +500 lebanones as hostages, not just men, but women and child.

so plz stop defending Israel.

[Rasputin]

so plz stop defending Israel.

Ghasd nadashtam sohbati,alaveh bar unkeh ghablan dar article shodeh,inja dashteh basham,montaha in jomeleyeh shoma ta andazei ajib va gharib hast keh shak va tardideh ziadi dar man ijad mikoneh !

Aghay-e aziz ..

Man hich guneh alaghei va ya ehsasi nesbat beh Israel nadaram,va az un taraf,nah beh Lebanon or Hizbollah or ... !

Dar inja lazem midunam yek seri mataleb ro begam ta bebinim in dastan mikhad ta koja edameh peida koneh !

Hich vaght,ma moshkeli ba Israel govroment nadashtim ! Hich vaght keshvar-e ma moredeh hamleh va ya moredeh terror va koshtar-e yahu diha naboudeh va az un taraf, Kourosh Bozorg in din ro beh rasmiat shenakht va ba Anahita keh az madari yahudi beh donya umadeh boud,ezdevaj kard !

Khaheshmandam,agar shoma dalili tarikhi darid keh neshoun bedeh, Yahudi va ya yek Israeli,yek irani ro koshteh,hamin ja bezarin ta ma ham azash ba khabar beshim !

Hala mirim soragh-e taraf va tarafdari ...

Bebinam,ma chera bayad az kasi beineh in do ta mehvar tarafdari konim ? mageh keshvareh ma mashallah khodesh keshvareh azadi va democracy hast ?? ma chekareh mahal hastim ?? ma kheili zerang bashim,faghat betunim keshvar-e khodemun ro az daste in akhoundhayeh gheireh iranieh setamgar nejat bedim,beh ma cheh marbuteh jangeh yek moshteh radical ???

Vali agar gharar basheh keh taraf begirim,bandeh ba inkeh moafegh nistam,taraf-e Israel va ya har kasi keh doshmane akhoundha hast ro khaham gereft ( Khoda ro shokr mesleh man ziad hastan !) dalilesh ham sadeh hast ,Doshman-e doshman-e man, doust-e man hast, beh khosus touyeh in jaryan keh dalayeleh manteghi vojud dareh keh har kodumeshun mituneh moredi basheh barayeh motehad shodan va jangidan dar barabare in hokumate eslamie gheire ghanuni !

Aghay-e aziz..

Shoma midunestid keh Aghay-e Rafsanjani dar zaman-e jang,chetor aslaheh beh iraniha miresund ta betavanand jeloyeh S Hossein ro begiran ? M Leveen yek jew hast keh ba hamkarieh mostaghimeh Israel,beh vasileyeh Keshvarhayeh second line, beh ma aslaheh midadan ( Brasil-Romania and Sweden ) .

In haman zamani boud keh az keshvarhayeh arabic (Egypt Kuwait A Saudi Qatar Phalestine Sudan Tunis) sarbaz mifrestadan ta jeloyeh ham vatanayeh ma bejangan !!! mageh ma un zaman gabr budim ? budaei budim ??? mageh ''masalan'' kheire saremoun mosalmun nabudim ??? chera un zaman kasi beh komakeh ma nemiumad ?? Mageh khalabanhayeh lobnani nayumadan Isfahan Shahr-e Kord ro bombaran kardan ? un zaman dastan chi boud keh hala fargh kardeh ?? khodeh khomeini arabha ro parasit hayeh islamist mikhund va yeki az dalayelesh barayeh ferestadaneh Mohtashami beh Lebanon barayeh ijad Hezbollah in bud keh shakheyeh shi'e ijad besheh keh betuneh jeloyeh arabha ro begireh (Chizi keh nashod va ruz beh ruz zaeif tar misheh ) .

Shoma faramoush kardin keh ta hamin 3 sal-e pish keh poshte zendane Evin camp boud keh dar anja beh pesar bacheh hayeh felestini va lobnani jangidan yad midadan va in aghayun-e lobnani va felestini,cheh balaha va cheh tajavozati keh kardan beh dokhtarayeh zendani keh tanha jormeshun syasi boudan boud ?

Faramoush kardi ki Mahnaz Sadigh pour ro kosht ?? faramoush kardin ki Doctor Asad Kia ro sar borid jeloyeh pesareh 8 salash va un bacheh ro ham kosht ??? shoma tassavor mikonid keh yek irani biad,ham vataneh khodesho bekosheh ? beh dokhtareh 16 saleh tajavoz koneh va dar hale in amaleh kasif dokhtar ro beh ghatl beresune ?? chi shod hala ?? koja hast un gheirate iranie un adamha ?? inha keh dast poshteh Shah va pedaresh ro ham az posht bastan !!!

Hamin adamha kari kardan keh javunhayeh irani az mazhab bargashtan.javunhaei keh beh adianeh digeh motevasel shodan bi rahmaneh beh ghatl resundan !! in eslame inhast keh ba un eslame Mohammad fargh dareh ! Mohammad hich vaght nagofteh boro adam bokosh bi dalil va bi madrak !! Mohammad hich vaght nagofteh yahudi bokosh !!! hamin Mohammad mageh nabud keh yek zaneh jew har ruz un ro moredeh doshnam gharar midad vali Mohammad chizi nemigoft va miraft ta ruzi keh un zan ro nadid,porsid kojast,goftan marizeh,raft ayadateh un zan !!! kojast pas gheirate mosalmun budan ??!!! ki gofteh va ya kojayeh ghoran gofteh in lataelati keh in akhunda migan ???

Hanuz ghameh Akbar-e Mohammadi touyeh delameh !! un vaght beram ghamgin besham az inkeh Israel hamleh kardeh beh Lebanon ? mageh man ahleh unjam ? mageh man arabam ? mageh man hameh kareh in donya hastam keh dekhalat konam ?

Inha irani nistan ! inha vatan nadaran keh hatta bekhan vatan foroush bashan ! Kojayeh eslam gofteh mamlekateto befroush beh dinet ?? hamin Mohammad mageh naboud zamani keh migoft agar ehsas kardid keh beh khatere mosalman budan dar khatar hastid,begid keh mosalman nistid !!! mageh Mohammad az inha balatareh ? pas kasani keh az in akhundhayeh sheitan seffat tarafdari mikonan beh jayeh dar nazar dashtan Hagh,hatman ahdafeh digei daran !!!

Hamin alan keh baraye shoma minevisam,nazdikeh beh 6000 zendanieh syasi dar 11 zendane iran hastan ! inha ro faramoush konam va tarafdari konam az adamhaei keh hazeran beh khatereh poul va magham har kari bekonan ?

Shah,khianat hayeh ziadi ro kard beh Iran vali la'aghal motmaen boud keh irani varedeh jang va ya hileh garihayeh keshvarhayeh digeh nasheh ! inha irani nistan..inha az anjaei risheh migiran keh beh zur va ba shamshir eslam ro avordan beh iran,va hatta ghader nashodan keh eslameh vaghei ro beh iranian neshun bedan va ba karhashun eslam ro kharab kardan va ruz beh ruz shahedeh in khahim boud keh mardomeh iran iman va ehsasateh mazhabishoun ro az dast bedan. az unvar tanha afradi keh sudeh mali gireshun miad va beheshun poul dadeh misheh az in hokumateh bi khabar az Khoda hemayat mikonan !

Khosh bakhtaneh,ba tavajoh beh shenakhti keh az Forumha va Iranian communities dar internet daram bad az 11 sal,hich kas ro nadidam keh islamic republic tarafdari koneh ! hatta unhaei keh beh iran safar mikonan cheh bereseh beh man keh az saleh 1979 Iran ro nadidam va ghalbam hamchenan feshordeh hast !

Matalebi keh dar bala khedmateh shoma goftam,tamaman dar forum,dar politic section vujud dareh ! mitunid bekhunid va bebinid keh ba dalil va madrak va ba source neveshteh shodeh va post shodehand.

Mamnoun az shoma beh khatere reply .

[mike435]

redwine thank g-d for your sanity

[Nutcase]

discussions like this make this forum worthwhile, merci.

[Rasputin]

Thx Nutcase & Mike For your Support

:=)

[Rasputin]

Eye On Israel (Israel tries to cut off Tehran from world markets)

Israelis Lose Faith in New Generation Of Leaders

By Scott Wilson

JERUSALEM,Frustration over the outcome of the war in Lebanon has spurred many Israelis to question the abilities of a new class of political professionals who are stepping into roles long held by the men and women who founded the Jewish state.

The mostly East European immigrants who brought Israel into being are steadily ceding power to a more ethnically and ideologically diverse generation raised here. Now the uncertain aftermath of the first war to be managed by a prime minister from outside Israel's founding generation -- Ehud Olmert, a 60-year-old lawyer elected this year -- has sharpened debate over whether the best of the new generation are entering public life.

"How have we left our leadership to such mediocre people?" said Eliad Shraga, 46, head of the nonpartisan Movement for Quality Government in Israel who staged a nearly three-week hunger strike outside Olmert's office after returning from reserve duty in the Lebanon war. "We are asking ourselves how this has happened to us."

Olmert and others of his political generation embody a leadership shift that highlights the Jewish state's changing values and demographics.

Israel's original socialist character has evolved into a more free-market economy and less centralized government. The private sector and town councils are turning into training grounds for new political leaders, who once emerged largely from the labor movement, the kibbutz collective-farm enterprise and the military. There are more former mayors than generals in Olmert's cabinet, which also includes ministers from university faculties and the secret services.

But prospective Israeli leaders have found the diverse economy more attractive than public life, a notoriously treacherous arena given the country's cutthroat political culture. Israel's mainstream political leadership now consists mostly of pragmatic men and women who have made politics their profession -- a sharp contrast to the ideological volunteers, shaped by persecution, who founded Israel nearly six decades ago.

Historians and sociologists describe the change as the kind of natural evolution that occurs in most countries. But it is proving more complicated here because of Israel's unique circumstances -- a state still defining its borders, in a region where many countries dispute its right to exist.

"A nation cannot always be in a revolutionary spirit," said Ephraim Yaar, a professor of sociology at Tel Aviv University who runs the Evens Program in Mediation and Conflict Resolution. "People want to live normal lives. But in some ways, Israel cannot give up this spirit because of the peculiar existential threat it faces. We are still in the process of nation-building."

Isaac Herzog, the 46-year-old tourism minister, is one of Israel's political "princes."

His father, Chaim Herzog, built Israel's military intelligence agency before serving as ambassador to the United Nations and the country's president. His grandfather was Israel's first chief rabbi, and one of his handwritten prayers for the new state hangs on Herzog's office wall.

As a boy, Herzog's neighbors in Zahala, a suburb of Tel Aviv, included Moshe Dayan, Yitzhak Rabin and Ariel Sharon, hero-generals of the wars and political battles that helped define the modern state.

"My father and his compatriots focused on security and the economy, but I became interested early on with talking to the Palestinians and in issues like the environment and human rights," said Herzog, who speaks Arabic.

"The whole system of values has changed," he continued. "I would say our generation is more willing to compromise, less willing to see ideology as holy."

Olmert is also a second-generation politician. Elected to parliament at the age of 28, he is Israel's third prime minister from outside the founding generation. When Sharon, 78, was felled by a stroke in January, Olmert assumed the top job and was elected on his own in March, on a platform to withdraw Israel from parts of the West Bank and define the state's final borders. The plan has been shelved since the war, and the Israeli public is waiting for another to replace it.

Olmert's foreign minister, Tzipi Livni, whose popularity plummeted during the war, is the daughter of a leader of Irgun, the Zionist militia that attacked British forces and civilian targets before Israel's creation.

Both Olmert and Livni, 48, also a lawyer by training, left the Likud party last year to join Sharon's Kadima movement -- evidence, political analysts say, that the politicians now in charge are less ideological than those of the past.

The only member of Olmert's cabinet who played a vital role in Israel's political life before the founding of the state is Shimon Peres, the 83-year-old vice prime minister and Nobel Peace laureate who left the Labor Party last year after losing his bid to lead it.

"I think this shows we are now a more normal society, one without stars," Herzog said. "Stars just fall into the bureaucracy."

Recent opinion polls show that a large majority of Israelis believe the previous leaders were better than the current ones, while one in five Israelis does not think any of the senior party leaders is suitable to be prime minister. When the Marker, a business supplement published by the daily newspaper Haaretz, revealed its picks for the 100 Israelis with the most influence over the economy, no name appeared in the top slot, only the words: "Leader Wanted!"

"These new politicians don't regard themselves as mythological figures, nor does the public view them that way," said Tom Segev, a prominent Israeli historian and author of several influential books on the state's formative years. "And on the healthy side, the public no longer has giants it will blindly trust."

Segev contends that "for most Israelis, the founding giants are more about what they symbolized than who they actually were. They were overly mythologized, and now many enjoy an image that is just not justified."

While less trusting, the public is also more angry, particularly over a flurry of corruption scandals involving Israel's senior politicians and Olmert's refusal to allow an independent commission to examine the recent war's management.

The military, traditionally the country's most esteemed institution, is investigating itself at a time of pervasive anger among reserve officers. Many of them have criticized military commanders and civilian leaders for providing insufficient supplies and equipment during the fight, as well as for a tentative battle plan they contend prolonged the conflict and endangered Israeli soldiers and civilians.

Yaar's monthly "peace index" tracking poll showed a large drop last month in support for the military, along with other public institutions. Yaar noted that the marks for Olmert's government and the parliament "were already extremely low in the past and they did not have much space to shrink further."

"A war we don't win is a war we lose," said Zeev Sternhell, who fought in four of Israel's wars and is author of "The Founding Myths of Israel." "We have never been through such a loss of faith in the political and military leadership at the same time. I'm afraid people are beginning to lose confidence in the system itself."

Israeli politicians say the business sector could be the next source of political leadership. But sociologists argue that Israel's high-tech entrepreneurs, known for risk-taking and creativity, will likely be discouraged from entering the rough spectacle of Israeli politics.

"Israel has been very rude to people who want to volunteer their talents to public life, and by that I mean cynicism, which just kills everything," said Erel Margalit, managing partner of Jerusalem Venture Partners, a venture-capital firm with interests in high-tech businesses. "I think a few of us will jump, whether it's me or someone else. It depends on the timing and opportunity."

Margalit, 45, is mentioned frequently as a possible candidate for mayor of Jerusalem, where he lives and supports a number of arts projects. He was raised on a kibbutz and supported Labor Party leader Amir Peretz's bid for the prime ministership in March. Peretz, now Israel's highly unpopular defense minister, once embodied the promising rise of Jewish immigrants of North African and Middle Eastern descent in a society long dominated by European Jews.

"For a lot of us, the legacy of our grandfathers -- that we came here not just to make a profit -- is still there," Margalit said. "We don't want to be socialist, or at least not a part of the 1917 revolution. But we do want to use the same kind of sensitivities found on the kibbutz when things get difficult."

The idealists of today are lonely.

Daniel Kayros, 35, passed up the large-salary life of a corporate lawyer to run the fiscal litigation department of the Movement for Quality Government in Israel. He manned a tent for weeks across from Olmert's office festooned with banners declaring, "You Lost The North," a play on words meaning the government had lost both its support in the Galilee region and its direction.

"Against the backdrop of the amazing historic story of this country, to see the crumbling of government morals is extremely discouraging," said Kayros, who immigrated to Israel from Wisconsin at 19. "To me, it is an emergency call to the flag. I only wish more of the country felt that way."

[mike435]

very intresting

[donsaeid]

ارتش و بحران رهبري در "اسرائيل"

[Rasputin]

Israeli troops have raided a bank and the offices of money-changers in West Bank towns, confiscating funds they say were intended to fund militants.
The army said it seized almost $1.5m (£0.8m) in raids on premises in Nablus, Jenin, Tulkarm and Ramallah.

The money had mostly come from Syria and Iran and was intended for Hamas and Islamic Jihad militants, the army said.

Palestinian sources have said that millions of dollars, documents and files were "stolen" in the raids.

At least eight currency exchange offices and a small bank were destroyed, the Israeli army said.

Israeli forces also said they had arrested two men, discovering pistols and hunting rifles in raids on their homes.

Some 5m shekels ($1.2m; £0.6m) and 170,000 Jordanian dinars ($240,000; £130,000) had been seized, the army said.

The Nablus branch of the Jordanian National Bank was destroyed in one of the raids.

Israeli security forces raided Palestinian banks in February 2004, taking from their vaults more than $9m (£5m) in what was said to be a move to choke funding to militants.

The 2004 raids provoked rioting among Palestinians and a threat from Jordan that it would sue Israel to recover funds seized from Jordanian-owned banks.

Gaza violence

Also on Wednesday, Israeli troops in the Gaza Strip killed a Palestinian man.

The Israeli military said he was a militant who'd been trying to remove rocket-launchers used in an attack on Israeli territory.

The army said one Israeli was injured when militants earlier fired rockets into Israel from the northern Gaza Strip.

More than 220 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since Israel began a military offensive nearly three months ago following the capture of a soldier by militants in a cross-border raid.

Israel says it also wants to stop militants firing rockets into its territory.

Two Israeli soldiers have been killed in Gaza since the start of the offensive.

[Rasputin]

The BBC has obtained evidence that Israelis have been giving military training to Kurds in northern Iraq.

A report on the BBC TV programme Newsnight showed Israeli experts in Kurdish areas of north Iraq, drilling soldiers in shooting techniques.

Kurdish officials have refused to comment on the report and Israel has denied it knows of any involvement.

The revelation is set to cause enormous problems for the Kurds, not only in Iraq but also in the wider region.

Inside Iraq as well as in the wider region Israel is seen as an enemy of Arabs and Muslims.

'Against Israeli law'

Kurdish politicians will most likely come under pressure to explain what their semi-autonomous government has been up too.

Israeli security experts who spoke to the BBC said they could not have worked inside Kurdistan without the knowledge of the Kurdish authorities.

The news will most probably increase the tension between the Kurds and other Iraqis.

Iraq's neighbours, too, will be outraged.

Iran and Syria, which have long accused the Kurds of allowing the Israelis to operate on Iraqi territory, will demand an explanation from the government in Baghdad.

The Israeli government says it is conducting an investigation into the BBC report because it is against Israeli law to export military know-how without prior permission.

'Conspiracy evidence'

The BBC report will be like the smoking gun the Arab media has spent years looking for.

Ever since the US-led invasion of Iraq began over three years ago, Arab journalists have been speaking of Israelis operating inside the autonomous region of Kurdistan.

They said this was evidence that toppling Saddam Hussein was only the first chapter in a wider American-Israeli conspiracy to eliminate threats to their strategic interests and re-draw the map of the Middle East.

Syria and Iran, which have common borders with Kurdish areas, are believed to be the primary target.

[donsaeid]

another view of a bad day in israel!

i do feel only with innocent people!

http://www.zippyvideos.com/6563012135734886/doribenisraelkario299562/

[Sepideh_UK]

Oh God!!
That was disgusting..

Thanx saeid.