About Jewish Ppl (Iranian Jewish)

[Dokhtar Bandari]

Judaism is not alone in that.

[mike435]

Judaism is not alone in that.

i am glad that its not

[mike435]

Judaism is not alone in that.

their you your self are saying that their are organized celebrations that do not celeberate g-d in ways you don't like
than why do you write the other comment (post 162)

[Dokhtar Bandari]

Sorry Mike, I am not getting what you are saying. Please elaborate. TIA

[mike435]

well can you explain how you came to the conclution of atlantis and tell me your source

[Dokhtar Bandari]

LOL.. my post 162 says clearly says how I feel about some organized religions or even how some people look at God and what God is all about.

You said that Judaism passes all of those criteria, I assumed that you are saying they fall within that category... if I was wrong then sorry.

My source???? You will not believe me anyways so why bother... all you need to know is that I have been awakened beyond one's comprehension, but everybody is on the route, sooner or later everyone must evolve or become obsolete.

And I can bet that even the above statement is hard for you to believe.

[mike435]

LOL.. my post 162 says clearly says how I feel about some organized religions or even how some people look at God and what God is all about.

You said that Judaism passes all of those criteria, I assumed that you are saying they fall within that category... if I was wrong then sorry.

My source???? You will not believe me anyways so why bother... all you need to know is that I have been awakened beyond one's comprehension, but everybody is on the route, sooner or later everyone must evolve or become obsolete.

And I can bet that even the above statement is hard for you to believe.

first of there is nothing to be sorry about and i am thakful that you presented a view point that i seldom see

as to your source let me decide wether or not it is pusible and if not so what

[Dokhtar Bandari]

God.

[mike435]

God.

oh wow that helps

seriously though how did you come to the conclution that persians are from atlantise

if it is g-d tel me about the journy

[Dokhtar Bandari]

LOL.. Mike I never said Persians were from Atlantis. I said Aryans were from Sumaria/Atlantis and they moved to Persian plains.

[Rasputin]

A spontaneous discussion that transpired in the aftermath of a panel discussion on changing Iranian identities struck a chord of seeming cultural contention. It was a discussion on Iranian Jewry and the tendency for Iranians to question the national allegiances of Iranian Jews. "Iranian or Jewish?", they ask.

The discourse developed at the recent seminar organized by the Society for Iranian Studies in Bethesda, Maryland, with the sponsorship of the American Institute of Iranian Studies. The last panelist's topic of presentation was "Ethnicity and religion: Maintaining Iranian Jewish Identity." She ended her discussion by paraphrasing what she said was the collective sentiment of Iranian Jews on the issue of not being accepted by Muslim Iranians: "We were there before Islam," she declared. As she sat down applause rose from the audience. Apparantly there were quite a few Jewish members of the Iranian community in the audience.

"Jews have been in Iran for 2,700 years. That's ninety generations ago! Why do you still not accept us as Iranians?", demanded one vociferous member of the audience standing in the back of the crowded room. "Our parents had two names, one Persian and one Jewish," recalled another member of the audience, and added, "In our generation, we only have one name... a Persian one." Some audience members concurred as she continued. "Sometimes in America, Jewish people ask me what my Hebrew name is and I say I don't have one. They're surprised. We've done everything," she proclaimed. "It's you, the Muslims, who don't accept us."

One young woman, a poet, who had driven all the way from Connecticut to attend the seminar in Maryland said, "I want you to know this is becoming very therapeutic." As she drew laughter from the crowd, she went on to forcefully make her point. "We speak Farsi better than we speak Hebrew, we listen to Persian music, we rejoice at Noruz, which is not the Jewish celebration of the New Year but a Persian one, but still we're accused of having mixed allegiances." She added that her volition to drive from Connecticut to Maryland for a cultural conference on Iran should demonstrate her allegiances.

Seeking to make some peace, one bearded gentleman with a congenial tone stood up to share a childhood memory with us. He recalled that as a Muslim child born to Muslim parents, he was sent to a Jewish school in Tehran. When the Jewish children had Torah lessons , he recalled, the Muslim kids would be sent out for recess, and their Jewish mates were all jealous. "One day," he recalled with a smile, "I came home and said to my mother, 'Mom it's a holiday tomorrow, we don't have school.' My mother thought a little and said, 'what Holiday?' I said 'Mom, It's Purim tomorrow!'" Again the release of laughter came from the crowd. "So the relationship between Jews and Muslims was congenial," he concluded.

"Why shouldn't it have been congenial?" rebutted another member of the audience. Their was no reason why it shouldn't have been because "the Jews are such masters at being minorities" that they "made an effort to keep their Jewry in the background," in order to fit into Persian society. She speculated that perhaps there was some "resentment" from the Iranian Jewish community that they were forced to act this way in order to attain the acceptance from Muslims, that to this day, alludes them.

Leah Baer, the independent scholar that presented the paper concurred.

As the cycle of tension to comic relief began to rebound again, one audience member standing in the back of the now packed room proclaimed, "We're the invisible. We're invisible from Iranian history, Iranian literature, Iranian culture and Iranian society; yet we have made every effort, to assimilate. Isn't it time to look at us?" "Politics," said a faint voice from the distance. Heads began nodding in affirmative unison.

"There's no democratic conception of Iranian identity," claimed one audience member attempting to diffuse the deadlock. The Iranian identity, he explained, is not defined as one set of rules. It is a definition of allegiance, circumstance and proclamation. "We don't accept Iranians as just Iranians, we judge them by their accents, their beliefs, their language skills, and yes even their religion," he charged. "This is why the question of allegiance arises as related to Iranians." Afsaneh Najmabadi of Barnard College, a speaker herself, offered her alternate viewpoint. This is a "troubling" question, she said, that no other minority demands an answer to. "It indicates a prejudice," she said. That response drew the ire of one audience member who walked up to the podium to voice her disappointment that the issue had just been termed as an example of "prejudice" by a "scholar."

The tension was rising again until one woman got up to share her own story. "Years ago in Tehran", she began, when she and her brother were children, they had gone to a gathering where Jews were on one side and Muslims on another. Her brother, she said, had particularly Muslim features. As he went to cross over to the Jewish side from the entrance, a doorman stopped him. "I'm Jewish," he told the doorman. "No you're not," said the doorman ushering him over to the Muslim crowd. Finally he pleaded, "Agha beh Ghora'an-e-Majid, Jouhoudam!" ("I swear to the Qoran, I'm Jewish!")

Cries of laughter arose from the crowd. In the end it was clear that the Jewish community has an Achilles Heel on the issue of "inclusion." Muslim Iranians in the crowd, for their part, seemed genuinely interested in the issue and were even receptive to suggestions on how to break the historic habit of alienating their Jewish compatriots.

The panel had now gone half an hour over its time allotment for that room. So on an ending note one audience member asked the chair of the panel, Houri Berberian, an Armenian, "Now that this has become a vetting session of minority qualms, tell us Madame Chair, what are your thoughts as an Armenian Iranian...?

Laughter again, and luckily for Madame Chair, who turned immediately red, adjournment.

[Rasputin]

In January of the current year, the mass departure of a number of Iranian Jews was on the top of the news of some foreign news agencies, who quoted the living conditions of the Jews in Iran, being terrible, painful and ignoble.



After this news maneuver, the representative of Jewish Community in the Islamic Consultative Assembly and the Iranian Jewish Association released reply letters and participated in several interviews, in which they denied the immigrating group’s baseless claims. Subsequently many Iranian Jewish organizations in Europe and US showed significant reactions in objection to this movement.

From the writer’s point of view, considering the numerous documents and various historical evidences, which prove the freedom, security and full peace of the Jewish Iranians and their peaceful coexistence with other compatriots in their own country, there would be no need to repeat what has been said and written over the past years in proving and confirming the issue, because as an Iranian proverb says;

“One word will be enough if there’s only one person in the house.”

Even those who have minimum information about this land and the miscellaneous tribes and minorities who live therein, would be certainly aware of the role of this language, tribal, and religious diversification in protecting the nature of Iran and of how its affairs in various areas as economy, policy, society and culture are going on. With a short look at the brilliant records of Jewish Iranians in the scared defense, the one and only war in which Iranians were involved within the past 200 years, and in which they didn’t even lose a centimeter of their lands, and the list of tens of Jewish martyrs, the war-handicapped and POWs, we find the evidences for out claim. The sense of being an Iranian has been mixed with the flesh and blood of all Jews of this territory as well as other minorities and in no market and at no rate, it can be sold.

Your affection in my soul, and your love in my heart

Came to me when my mother nursed me and it will leave me when I die.

What we have to consider about this suspicious news, which points to the organized immigration of the Jewish Iranians, is the exaggeration under which 27 Jewish Iranians out of whom more than one-third have been pilgrims and almost one-third have been tourists, and who have been collected from different flights with a pre-developed plan and at the presence of the representatives from different news agencies at a specific time at Tel Aviv airport, and with simultaneous broadcasting of an interview with Mr. Michael Jenkenovich, the speaker of an immigration agency, affiliated to Zionist Christians, are introduced as immigrants to Israel. Here we do not intend to state the conspiracies of the enemies of peace and security of the Jews, since there has never been an organization or entity in Iran who has been trying to destroy this possibility for the Iranian Jews under which they could select their place of living, and now some organizations of this kind try to initiate such events in order to help them administer their justice!

What the writer tries to consider is the problems that these so-called friends of Jews have always put on the shoulder of this poor community.

If we want to think of the Jewish community as a community under injustice and pressure, certainly the main cause of this iniquity is the same more-kind-than-mother-nurse group who once in a time strike horrendous strokes on the peace and convenience of the members of this community and who have always being trying to create disturbance in the relations between the members of this society and the neighboring and host communities. The patience of the Iranian Jews, as they have so far been silent against such conspiracies, which are received from “Friends”, is really admirable. The writer believes that if for whatever reason and under any prudence, we have been hedging from an important responsibility, by releasing manifests and verbal condemnation, against such conspiracies, from now on we are no more allowed to make such hesitation. Although, all those deployments have been correct in its own right, but, the incidents of this kind show that they have not been enough, and it requires stronger actions. It seems the conservative abstinence of some of the members of Jewish community from commenting and interfering in political issues, carried out to prevent risks, damages and politics and with the concern of becoming the pawn of others, incurs more expenses on this community.

The silence of Jewish community against the ridiculous and foolish shows of Zionist parties, although they are justifiable with such interpretations as the silence of the wise against the lunatic, but it is not logical in some situations where the conspiracies of friend-like enemies incur serious damages on the creditability of the Jews.

The Jewish communities throughout the world are minority communities and such scenarios indicate antihuman plots against these minorities.

Let’s suppose the claim as hard living conditions of the minorities is a true one. In this case, no healthy mind would accept that for example for the clamorous rescue (in fact after the rescue!) of 40 Jews, they show the lives of tens of thousands of other Jews as being critical. Do these wet-nurse people have a goal other than the breach of human rights, which indicate the freedom of people in selecting the place of living?

These movements are undoubtedly made in order to damage the credit of the Jewish Community throughout the world and to make the majority communities and societies of their living place to lose their mutual confidence. So, it is the duty of every pious and informed Jew to rely on natural confidence in order to prove to all people of the world that the Iran’s Jewish Community is not a plaything at the hands of others.

[Rasputin]

From Babylon To Beverly Hills
Tannaz Eshaghian's documentary on the flight of Iranian Jews to US after 1979 Revolution

Very interesting. I want to see the rest! YouTube info: Very little is known about the religious diversity of Iranians living in America. This documentary helps create a more nuanced view of the culture and religious diversity of Iranians both inside and outside the country

YouTube - From Babylon To Beverly Hills - PREVIEW

[Rasputin]

Rabbis hail Ahmadinejad's NY visit



A group of American rabbis welcome Iran's President Mahmud Ahmadinejad's visit to New York in a move aimed at countering an anti-Iran protest.


Iran promotes peace and respects Judaism, spokesman of Neturei Karta International (Jews United Against Zionism) Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss said in a statement issued on the eve of President Ahmadinejad's visit to New York.

This is while a pro-Israeli group called the Conference of Presidents of Major American Organizations has made efforts to organize a rally in front of the UN headquarters on Sunday to protest President Mahmud Ahmadinejad's arrival in the U.S..

Neturei Karta International, however, took quite a contrary position toward Ahmadinejad's visit and called for dialogue with the Iranian president.

""It is sad that so few have actually attempted to speak to the Iranian President or seek the true opinion of Iranian Jewry who live in peace and practice their faith throughout that nation. We have met this man who has demonstrated time and again that he is sincerely interested in the well being of Iran's Jewish community and has deep respect for world Jewry and their Torah faith. The Zionist attempt to socially isolate this man and his people is immoral and disastrous,"" said the statement.

""It has been our honor and privilege to meet with President Ahmadinejad ... we have found the Iranian President to be a deeply religious man, dedicated to a peaceful world, based on mutual respect, fairness and dialogue,"" Rabbi Weiss wrote.

""Out of great respect to the Iranian Nation and their leadership we proudly welcome the Honorable President Ahmadinejad to New York, WELCOME!"" added the rabbi at the end of the statement.

Iran's President arrived at New York City's John F. Kennedy Airport on Sunday to address the 63rd annual session of the UN General Assembly on September 23.

[Rasputin]

در میدان فلسطین اصفهان، روبروی مسجدی که الاقصی نام دارد، کنیسه ای است که یهودیان این شهر تاریخی سپیده دم در آنجا جمع می شوند.

در بالای درب ورودی این کنیسه پارچه نوشته ای نصب شده که روی آن این جمله دیده می شود: "جامعه یهودیان اصفهان سی امین سالگرد انقلاب اسلامی را تبریک می گوید."

به زودی مراسم دعای یهودیان شروع می شود. سلیمان صدیق پور، عتیقه فروشی که مغازه اش مملو از اشیاء قدیمی است بر بالای سکوی خطابه و در زیر یک چهلچراغ، این مراسم را اجرا می کند.

من روز قبل به مغازه غبار گرفته او رفته بودم و از او یک دستنبد صدفی که با مینیاتورهای ایرانی تزیین شده، خریده بودم.

از سلیمان صدیق پور پرسیدم هنگامی که شعارهای "مرگ بر اسرائیل" را در ایران می شنود چه احساسی به او دست می دهد؟

در پاسخ می گوید: " بگذارید آنها شعار مرگ بر اسرائیل، بدهند. من 43 سال است صاحب این مغازه هستم و هرگز مشکلی نداشته ام. من برای دیدن خویشاوندانم به اسرائیل رفته ام. اما وقتی اتفاقی مانند حمله به نوار غزه را می بینم واکنشم مثل هر ایرانی دیگر است."

برای اقلیت ها، خاورمیانه مکان راحتی نیست. جایی که صرف موجودیت آنها به دلیل برچسب های مذهبی و هویت ملی،کمتر تحمل می شود.


با این وجود، هنوز حدود 25 هزار یهودی در ایران زندگی می کنند و این کشور و ترکیه دارای بزرگ ترین جامعه اقلیت یهودی در خاورمیانه هستند.

تهران دارای بیش از 6 کنیسه است و در اصفهان حدود 1200 یهودی که قدمت جامعه شان به سه هزار سال قبل باز می گردد، زندگی می کنند.

پس از تاسیس کشور اسرائیل در سال 1947 و نیز انقلاب اسلامی ایران در سال 1979 جمعیت یهودیان ایران که به 100 هزار نفر می رسید به تدریج کاهش یافته است. ولی مهاجرت یهودیان ایرانی در مقایسه با کشورهای عرب در ابعاد کوچک تری صورت گرفته. پس از تاسیس کشور اسرائیل نزدیک به 800 هزار یهودی از کشورهای عربی به اسرائیل مهاجرت کردند.

البته جنگ های اسرائیل با عرب ها بوده نه ایرانیان و این واقعیتی است که تا حدی توجیه می کند به چه دلیل در مقایسه با کشورهای عربی، تعداد کمتری از یهودیان ایرانی از این کشور خارج شده اند.

ولی هنوز این سئوال مطرح است که برای یهودیان ایرانی کدام مهمتر است؟ تحمل شعارهای ضد اسرائیلی، انکار هولوکاست و دیگر تحرکات، یا این حقیقت که آنها در ایران با آرامش نسبی زندگی، کار و عبادت می کند.

شاید از آنجا که من به عمل توجه دارم نه حرف، نظرم این است که نباید با لفاظی های تحریک آمیز قضاوت کرد و واقعیت ادب و تربیت ایرانیان در برخورد با یهودیان، نشان دهنده فرهنگ و فرهیختگی مردم این کشور است.

البته من که خودم یهودی هستم می دانم که چنانچه تعداد زیادی از یهودیان ایران را ترک کنند حتما دلیلی خواهد داشت. خصومت ها وجود دارد. از جمله وارد کردن اتهام جاسوسی به گروهی از یهودیان شیراز در سال 1999 و تبلیغات فراوان درباره آن.

در میان اقلیت ها، رفتار با بهایی هایی که اخیرا به اتهام جاسوسی برای اسرائیل دستگیر شده بودند خشن و بیرحمانه بوده است.

از موریس معتمد، نماینده پیشین یهودیان در مجلس ایران پرسیدم که آیا او احساس نمی کند از او استفاده می شود و در حقیقت او یک خائن ایرانی است؟

موریس معتمد در پاسخ گفت چنین احساسی ندارد و درحقیقت احساس می کند مردم ایران در برابر یهودیان تحمل و بردباری دارند.

موریس معتمد گفت: "البته شعار مرگ بر اسرائیل او را ناراحت می کند ولی نباید دارای معیارهای دو گانه بود و اجازه داد اسرائیل، پاکستان و هند بمب هسته ای داشته باشند ولی نه ایران."

اما خاورمیانه بیش از آن با تجربه شده که معیارهای دو گانه را بپذیرد. دشنام های ضد اسرائیلی ایران را می توان حربه ای دانست تا مردم متوجه بمب اسرائیل، اشغال 41 ساله کرانه غربی، عدم قبول حماس، و استفاده مکرر از زور بیش از حد توسط اسرائیل شوند. ممکن است لحن ایران زننده باشد ولی برای دستیابی به هرگونه صلحی در خاورمیانه و نیز مذاکره با ایران، باید این عوامل در نظر گرفته شود.

میدان فلسطین اصفهان، نمونه ای از واقعیت گرایی در ایران است. بنهور شمیان، که 22 ساله است در کنیسه اصفهان به من گفت غزه نشان داد که دولت اسرائیل "جنایتکار" است ولی او هنوز به برقراری صلح امیدوار است.

در مسجد الاقصی، مرتضی فروغی 72 ساله با دستش کنیسه را نشان داد و گفت: " آنها پیغمبر خودشان را دارند و ماهم پیغمبر خودمان را. و این هیچ اشکالی ندارد."