Interview with Iranian Gay Couple
A Gay couple from Iran talked with Arsham Parsi from Iranian Queer Organization (IRQO). Kamran, a 24 years old and Kaveh, a 25 years old have been together for 3 years. They fled Iran and are currently in Turkey, awaiting their asylum case to be proceeded by the UNHCR. In the interview, the two young men describe the daily social persecution Gay people are suffering in Iran, but also the hardships the refugees must face when fleeing their country without means for existence.
Can you introduce yourself?
My name is Kamran, I am 24 years old. Kaveh, my partner, is 25 years old and we have been together about 3 years.
What is the problem of an Iranian homosexual?
Kaveh: The first is that we cannot discuss any of our problems. We have a problem with the government due to our sexual orientation; the Islamic government does not accept us and we are condemned to hanging and stoning. In comparison the rest of the problems are minor.
How do you describe life as a homosexual in Iran?
Kamran: Very easy; one cannot work, cannot have fun, and cannot go out. You cannot go out with your partner because everybody will look at you as if you are abnormal. The way we are looked at is a source of torment for us. Even though physically we are not any different from them they discriminate against us. This makes our lives extremely difficult. I don’t think there is any problem greater than being labeled abnormal in society when you are certain nothing is wrong with you. If someone abuses you, you cannot issue a complaint to any organization or report to the police, because you'll create more problems for yourself.
What are the family problems faced by homosexuals?
Kamran : Familial reaction is just like that of society. No matter how close the family, it is not possible to be accepted. Homosexuality is an unrecognized issue for people in Iran, families included. They will always look at us as different because we are not like our cousins or uncles. We are not like our friends and acquaintances and so we cannot take part in their social gatherings. Why? Because we are homosexuals. That is the only reason. It does not matter how hard we try to resemble others in society. They [parents] will always sense we are different, because we are their children.
Dose your family know that you are homosexual?
Kamran: Yes, my family has known for long time.
Kaveh: My family cannot understand. Their age and health situation does not put them at a place where they'll be able to understand, so I don’t see the reason to tell them. Moreover, if I tell them they'll think this is a childish game and will not take me seriously. Once, because of problems that arose, they tried to come between me and Kamran’s relationship. I told them he and I would like to live together and remain close friends. They think we are very good friends. But they don’t believe we are gay. The thought would probably not even occur to them.
What do you think their reaction will be if you told them?
Kaveh: My family will believe it, but I am certain my parent would definitely have heart attacks. I will have problems with my brother. And I will definitely be kicked out of the house.
Why do you think parent can’t accept their child’s homosexuality? What is to be done in order for them to reach acceptance? What, in your opinion, is the core problem here?
Kamran: I really think the main problem is the social environment of the country. I know even in Europe, with all the freedom surrounding homosexuality, this is not very common and some families still have difficulties accepting it. For example, in England which has been known as one of the most liberal countries for homosexuals, people differentiate the lifestyle of homosexuals with heterosexuals and do not see it as a normal relationship. In Iran, we have more problems because we have a religious government and we have very limited relations with other countries. If legal obstacles were to be taken away, it would be possible to change people's minds about homosexuality. It will be possible to discuss it, tell people that homosexuality exists whether you like it or not and it isn't like an illness that can be eradicated by taking medication, it isn't like mental depression to have recovery time. You can’t tell a little girl not to be a girl, or to a boy not to move like a boy. You can’t tell a heterosexual man to not be heterosexual. So you can’t tell a homosexual man “don’t be gay. Go and fall in love with a girl and marry her”. Our families are traditional, and they want their children to be exactly what they are. They care more about their neighbors and friends gossiping than about their children. I, a gay man, matter less to my family than a neighbour or the local street-vendor. They are willing for me to suffer and become what they consider a normal human being so that strangers will say: “Oh, they have such a good son”.
Kaveh: And other problem that people have in Iran is that they do not have any knowledge about homosexuality. There are gay people that do not know they are gay and get married. Then after a while they are not happy in their life and realize that they are gay, or in some cases they get divorced but still fear their homosexuality. In an Iranian family a mentally challenged child is given full attention, sometimes even more than to their siblings. They accept this as something God has willed, and they will not let any body harm the child. But they will not look at homosexuality as God's will. They think it is because we never had a girl friend or because we are perverts. They don’t see homosexuality as a natural social reality, but as something acquired and chosen. We have not chosen to be homosexual. We were born homosexuals. What better answer can we give?
Kamran: Another difficult thing is that people do not know anything about our emotional life. They think homosexuality it is only about sex. "Homosexuality means sex" - this is what most of the people in Iran think and say. Unfortunately, some uneducated people say I want to "do" a gay. They think gay means prostitute.
Kaveh: I think people mostly get these stereotypical assumptions about gay people is from gay web sites. If I search the word "gay" or “homosexual” on the internet it will give me these websites of naked men and women or their private parts, so people will assume gay means prostitute.
For example, we proudly print a section of an article from your publication that is informative for families to read and give it to our family, ask them “please read this and see what it says about this issue” because in Iran we don’t have a source of information. Everything else is internet porn sites. The image people have of homosexuals is an evakhahar [a flamboyantly feminine homosexual man] in Daneshjou Park who waits to be picked up in cars and has sex all the time.
Kamran: If you believe homosexuality is a disease, look how many accomplished people we have.
Many of our doctors, engineers, artist, and chemist are homosexual. If that is an obscene sickness, why are these people so sophisticated, educated and accomplished? There is a number of successful executives I know who are gay. Why are these people successful? Are they homosexual and sick? Of course nothing is wrong with them; they just have a different sexual orientation. Homosexuals were born homosexual. Some people think socialization can be part of it, but I do not think so.
This raised two questions for me. Why do you think people call homosexual "evakhahar "? What does evakhahar mean? In addition, Kamran pointed to famous and successful people like singers and actors in cinema, figures most people are constantly exposed to and in a sense interact with daily. So how can they find homosexuality so unacceptable?
Kamran: I think their culture and way of thinking makes it impossible for them to accept it. At the most they'll say that famous gay person is still different from you. But he isn't. He has the same sexual urges as me.
On your other point, we call homosexual men "gay". Gay means a man who acts like a man, dresses like a man, and wants to be with a man. In this culture they think gay is a man who likes to put on makeup, act like a woman, and dress up like a woman. They call those men "evakhahar". Most of the time these people are not even gay. They just like to dress up and put makeup on, but they want to be with the opposite sex.
Can you introduce yourself?
My name is Kamran, I am 24 years old. Kaveh, my partner, is 25 years old and we have been together about 3 years.
What is the problem of an Iranian homosexual?
Kaveh: The first is that we cannot discuss any of our problems. We have a problem with the government due to our sexual orientation; the Islamic government does not accept us and we are condemned to hanging and stoning. In comparison the rest of the problems are minor.
How do you describe life as a homosexual in Iran?
Kamran: Very easy; one cannot work, cannot have fun, and cannot go out. You cannot go out with your partner because everybody will look at you as if you are abnormal. The way we are looked at is a source of torment for us. Even though physically we are not any different from them they discriminate against us. This makes our lives extremely difficult. I don’t think there is any problem greater than being labeled abnormal in society when you are certain nothing is wrong with you. If someone abuses you, you cannot issue a complaint to any organization or report to the police, because you'll create more problems for yourself.
What are the family problems faced by homosexuals?
Kamran : Familial reaction is just like that of society. No matter how close the family, it is not possible to be accepted. Homosexuality is an unrecognized issue for people in Iran, families included. They will always look at us as different because we are not like our cousins or uncles. We are not like our friends and acquaintances and so we cannot take part in their social gatherings. Why? Because we are homosexuals. That is the only reason. It does not matter how hard we try to resemble others in society. They [parents] will always sense we are different, because we are their children.
Dose your family know that you are homosexual?
Kamran: Yes, my family has known for long time.
Kaveh: My family cannot understand. Their age and health situation does not put them at a place where they'll be able to understand, so I don’t see the reason to tell them. Moreover, if I tell them they'll think this is a childish game and will not take me seriously. Once, because of problems that arose, they tried to come between me and Kamran’s relationship. I told them he and I would like to live together and remain close friends. They think we are very good friends. But they don’t believe we are gay. The thought would probably not even occur to them.
What do you think their reaction will be if you told them?
Kaveh: My family will believe it, but I am certain my parent would definitely have heart attacks. I will have problems with my brother. And I will definitely be kicked out of the house.
Why do you think parent can’t accept their child’s homosexuality? What is to be done in order for them to reach acceptance? What, in your opinion, is the core problem here?
Kamran: I really think the main problem is the social environment of the country. I know even in Europe, with all the freedom surrounding homosexuality, this is not very common and some families still have difficulties accepting it. For example, in England which has been known as one of the most liberal countries for homosexuals, people differentiate the lifestyle of homosexuals with heterosexuals and do not see it as a normal relationship. In Iran, we have more problems because we have a religious government and we have very limited relations with other countries. If legal obstacles were to be taken away, it would be possible to change people's minds about homosexuality. It will be possible to discuss it, tell people that homosexuality exists whether you like it or not and it isn't like an illness that can be eradicated by taking medication, it isn't like mental depression to have recovery time. You can’t tell a little girl not to be a girl, or to a boy not to move like a boy. You can’t tell a heterosexual man to not be heterosexual. So you can’t tell a homosexual man “don’t be gay. Go and fall in love with a girl and marry her”. Our families are traditional, and they want their children to be exactly what they are. They care more about their neighbors and friends gossiping than about their children. I, a gay man, matter less to my family than a neighbour or the local street-vendor. They are willing for me to suffer and become what they consider a normal human being so that strangers will say: “Oh, they have such a good son”.
Kaveh: And other problem that people have in Iran is that they do not have any knowledge about homosexuality. There are gay people that do not know they are gay and get married. Then after a while they are not happy in their life and realize that they are gay, or in some cases they get divorced but still fear their homosexuality. In an Iranian family a mentally challenged child is given full attention, sometimes even more than to their siblings. They accept this as something God has willed, and they will not let any body harm the child. But they will not look at homosexuality as God's will. They think it is because we never had a girl friend or because we are perverts. They don’t see homosexuality as a natural social reality, but as something acquired and chosen. We have not chosen to be homosexual. We were born homosexuals. What better answer can we give?
Kamran: Another difficult thing is that people do not know anything about our emotional life. They think homosexuality it is only about sex. "Homosexuality means sex" - this is what most of the people in Iran think and say. Unfortunately, some uneducated people say I want to "do" a gay. They think gay means prostitute.
Kaveh: I think people mostly get these stereotypical assumptions about gay people is from gay web sites. If I search the word "gay" or “homosexual” on the internet it will give me these websites of naked men and women or their private parts, so people will assume gay means prostitute.
For example, we proudly print a section of an article from your publication that is informative for families to read and give it to our family, ask them “please read this and see what it says about this issue” because in Iran we don’t have a source of information. Everything else is internet porn sites. The image people have of homosexuals is an evakhahar [a flamboyantly feminine homosexual man] in Daneshjou Park who waits to be picked up in cars and has sex all the time.
Kamran: If you believe homosexuality is a disease, look how many accomplished people we have.
Many of our doctors, engineers, artist, and chemist are homosexual. If that is an obscene sickness, why are these people so sophisticated, educated and accomplished? There is a number of successful executives I know who are gay. Why are these people successful? Are they homosexual and sick? Of course nothing is wrong with them; they just have a different sexual orientation. Homosexuals were born homosexual. Some people think socialization can be part of it, but I do not think so.
This raised two questions for me. Why do you think people call homosexual "evakhahar "? What does evakhahar mean? In addition, Kamran pointed to famous and successful people like singers and actors in cinema, figures most people are constantly exposed to and in a sense interact with daily. So how can they find homosexuality so unacceptable?
Kamran: I think their culture and way of thinking makes it impossible for them to accept it. At the most they'll say that famous gay person is still different from you. But he isn't. He has the same sexual urges as me.
On your other point, we call homosexual men "gay". Gay means a man who acts like a man, dresses like a man, and wants to be with a man. In this culture they think gay is a man who likes to put on makeup, act like a woman, and dress up like a woman. They call those men "evakhahar". Most of the time these people are not even gay. They just like to dress up and put makeup on, but they want to be with the opposite sex.
Comment