'India Left Successfully Rejects US, Keeps India Sovereign'

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  • zubin
    Member
    • Aug 2006
    • 1567

    #1

    'India Left Successfully Rejects US, Keeps India Sovereign'

    US “coerced” India over Iran- Former Bush appointee boasts

    By Kranti Kumara
    20 February 2007



    In a public speech Stephen G. Rademaker, a former US Assistant Secretary of State for Nonproliferation and International Security, boasted in New Delhi last week that the United States “coerced” India into voting against Iran at recent International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) meetings and warned that Washington may soon present India with an even starker choice.

    Rademaker delivered an address to the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses, a “think-tank” funded by the Indian Ministry of Defence, February 15 on “Iran, North Korea and the future of the NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty)”.

    The former Bush administration official claimed that the July 2005 Indo-US nuclear accord had resulted in a big change in India’s attitude towards what he termed “non-proliferation.” Translated into plain English this means that the US has made the nuclear agreement contingent upon India siding with the US in its attempt to bully Iran over its nuclear program and fully intends to use the accord to exact further concessions from India.

    Commenting on the Indian votes at IAEA meetings in September 2005 and February 2006, Rademaker declared, “The best illustration of this is the two votes India cast against Iran at the IAEA. I am the first person to admit that the votes were coerced.”

    Rademeker’s provocative comments were initially reported only in The Hindu of February 16. A day later, The Times of India also carried the story.

    As of the beginning of this week, there had been no response to Redemaker’s comments either from officials of the Indian government or from the leaders of the opposition parties, including the Stalinist Communist Party of India (Marxist), which, even while providing India’s Congress Party-led United Progressive Alliance government with the parliamentary votes needed to remain in office, has sharply criticized India’s two votes against Iran and warned that Washington is seeking to use the Indo-US nuclear accord to harness India to its predatory and bellicose geo-political designs.

    The current US ambassador to India, David Mulford, has, for his part, hastened to distance the US government from Redemaker. Said Mulford, “It has always been the US position that India will make decisions on the Iran issue based on its own national interests. We respect the government of India’s decisions on this matter. Redemaker is not a US official and the statements attributed to him are inaccurate.”

    Such denials coming from an official who has himself become notorious for his repeated provocative interventions in Indian affairs carry little, if any, weight. In January 2006, Mulford publicly warned that the Indo-US nuclear accord would “die” if India failed to support the US position against Iran at the upcoming IAEA meeting.

    Earlier this month, as India’s External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukerjee was departing for a two-day trip to Tehran, Mulford told the press that he was watching the visit with “interest.” The ambassador added that he wanted to ascertain if any Indo-Iranian agreements would result in India violating the 1996 Iran and Libya Sanctions Act—

    US legislation that threatens any foreign firm that invests more than $40 million in the development of Iran’s petroleum resources with financial penalties.

    The Bush administration has repeatedly publicly urged India to forego plans to build a pipeline to import Iranian natural gas via Pakistan. New Delhi, however, sees this project as both economically and politically rewarding, since it would underpin the current attempt to conclude a comprehensive peace settlement with Pakistan The pipeline deal was high on Mukherjee’s agenda for his Tehran visit. Earlier this month Indian Prime Minster Manmohan Singh, who at the time the nuclear accord with the US was first initialed dismissed the pipeline deal as a far-off venture, enthusiastically touted its benefits.

    The rival ambitions underlying the Indo-US nuclear accord

    Under the Indo-US nuclear accord, Washington has pledged to help forge a unique status for India within the world nuclear regulatory regime, making it eligible to receive civilian nuclear fuel and technology from the 45-member Nuclear Suppliers Group even though it is not a signatory to the NPT.

    Such “special status” is highly coveted by the Indian elite for several reasons: because it exemplifies the US’s readiness to forge a strategic partnership with India and, in the words of US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, “help” India to become a “world-power”; because India is hoping to reduce its dependence on energy imports by developing nuclear power; and because access to civilian nuclear fuel and technology exports will enable India to concentrate the resources of its own nuclear program on building its nuclear-weapon arsenal.

    While the Indian elite looks at the nuclear accord as propelling it into the realm of a world-power, the Bush administration and US geo-political establishment by contrast see it as cementing a strategic partnership in which India will play the role of satrap—that is, India will be expected to accommodate to and serve US imperialist ambitions in the Middle East and Asia.

    “In the end,” continued Redemaker, “India did not vote the wrong way.” India’s votes against Iran had “paved the way for the Congressional vote on the civilian nuclear proposal last year”—a reference to legislation adopted by the US Congress last December that amends the 1952 US Energy Act so as to facilitate the Bush administration plan to grant India “special status” within the world nuclear regulatory framework.

    But, and this was no doubt the key point of Redemaker’s “non-official” speech, the Bush administration is far from finished with its efforts to “coerce” India into doing its bidding against Iran: “More is going to be required [of India] because the problems of Iran and North Korea have not been solved.”

    Redemaker then repeated the Bush Administration’s charge that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, without presenting a shred of proof.

    He asserted that the “international community” will have to implement additional measures to persuade Iran to change course, while observing that Russia, whose president just visited India so as to revitalize the longstanding Indo-Russian military and geo-political alliance, is not fully siding with the US against Tehran.

    “Whether there will be more UN sanctions or more measures taken outside the UN context, we’ll have to see,” Redemaker said.

    India’s UPA government and the Indian elite find themselves on a strategic tightrope.

    They have pursued closer relations with China, Russia and Iran, even while accepting “favours” from the US, which has made no secret of the fact that it expects India to support its efforts to politically and economically isolate Iran and to serve as a strategic counterweight to a rising China.

    India’s elite has gambled that it can navigate through the shifting and increasingly turbulent seas of world politics, but now finds itself facing the imminent prospect of having to make a choice with tremendous long-term implications for India’s role in world affairs and its access to the energy reserves needed to fuel India’s economic growth.

    New Delhi’s suggestions that it could act as a mediator between Tehran and Washington have been met by the Bush administration with a contemptuous silence. Instead, as indicated by Mulford’s recent remarks, the US is stepping up its efforts to scuttle the Iranian pipe line project.

    Tehran, meanwhile, has sweetened its offer to India. It is guaranteeing the sale to India of natural gas at half the current international price. The attraction of the project for India is compounded by Russian President Putin’s recent announcement that the state-owned Gazprom energy monopoly is ready to take a leading role in financing and building the India-Pakistan-Iran pipeline.

    “[If] the U.N. Security Council acts against Iran,” Redemaker told his New Delhi audience last week, “this would make things easier for countries like India. But if things go in the direction of increasing economic pressure by a coalition of countries like the US, Europe and Japan, India will have to make a choice.

    “It is India’s prerogative to decide, but should it [not join], it would be a big mistake and a lost opportunity.”

    Redemaker claimed that for India to pullout of the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline project “would send a strong message to Iran, while not hurting India’s economic interests.”

    Ominously he continued: “[What] happens if there is an incident in Kashmir?” implying that the US would not hesitate to utilize the Indo-Pakistani geo-political rivalry to bully India to fall into line.

    These threats were combined with flattery. Redemaker urged India’s elite to stop thinking of themselves as leaders of a “third-world-country” and instead align themselves with the “first-world,” i.e. the traditional imperialist powers, the US, the EU countries and Japan.

    The stark choices facing the Indian elite with respect to its relations with US will undoubtedly cause great turmoil and much soul-searching within the Indian ruling elite.

    For the international working class, Washington’s campaign to intimidate India in preparation for further aggression against Iran must be seen as testament to the recklessness and desperation of a US elite intent on averting the erosion of its economic power through wars and threats of wars and as underlining, therefore, the urgency of reviving the antiwar movement on a socialist and internationalist perspective.
    Take him and cut him out in little stars,
    and he will make the face of heaven so fine,
    that all the world will be in love with night,
    and pay no worship to the garish sun

    - Shakespeare

    "In all intellectual debates, both sides tend to be correct in what they affirm, and wrong in what they deny." - JS Mill
  • indian_blues
    Member
    • Aug 2006
    • 1893

    #2
    u have to loose something to gain something.
    “I want to feel passion, I want to feel pain. I want to weep at the sound of your name. Come make me laugh, come make me cry... just make me feel alive.”

    If you wish to be loved, show more of your faults than your virtues. - Edward Bulwer-Lytton


    Comment

    • zubin
      Member
      • Aug 2006
      • 1567

      #3
      yeah, participating in currupt politics and preventing inevitable human progress is a gain
      Take him and cut him out in little stars,
      and he will make the face of heaven so fine,
      that all the world will be in love with night,
      and pay no worship to the garish sun

      - Shakespeare

      "In all intellectual debates, both sides tend to be correct in what they affirm, and wrong in what they deny." - JS Mill

      Comment

      • indian_blues
        Member
        • Aug 2006
        • 1893

        #4
        lol got hot dude? i didnt said we did right.. did i? this is inevitable from our point of view. We are people of 1 billion we can't afford to depend on energy resources from other countries and we badly needed to avoid the isolation in nuclear technology.... yeah we are selfish i know that but to save the same human progress.
        “I want to feel passion, I want to feel pain. I want to weep at the sound of your name. Come make me laugh, come make me cry... just make me feel alive.”

        If you wish to be loved, show more of your faults than your virtues. - Edward Bulwer-Lytton


        Comment

        • zubin
          Member
          • Aug 2006
          • 1567

          #5
          I'm sympathezing with your reasoning: it's due to practical circumstances. I'm simply stating that this mode of interaction is not a gain for anyone. It's in fact the prevention for anyone in the world to really gain, as gain can only come through justice. Justice is the last resort, its the only thing left. That's the only thing that can save this planet, and everyone understands it: its practical. Its that justice is being completely distracted with these very interactions. I'm not blaming India. In fact, to me its clear that the essence of Indian culture is heavily pressured and undermined due to the depraved international political order. I solely want to lay emphasis on the very idea of gain, and though in one sense it might make sense, I think the international context justifies abhorrance of the interaction. I wouldn't say its a "necessary evil" in order to make sense of the idea of gain. In other words, the gain is also a loss.

          Anyway, this wasn't to hound on your comment. Its just a discussion. My purpose of posting this was to discuss the depravaty of the situation, get the elephant out the room so to speak. Speaking of elephants... Hari, do you have any elephant stories? India is known for their elephants, and I love elephants. Can you adopt a baby elephant in India?

          Cheers,

          Ramin
          Take him and cut him out in little stars,
          and he will make the face of heaven so fine,
          that all the world will be in love with night,
          and pay no worship to the garish sun

          - Shakespeare

          "In all intellectual debates, both sides tend to be correct in what they affirm, and wrong in what they deny." - JS Mill

          Comment

          • indian_blues
            Member
            • Aug 2006
            • 1893

            #6
            Ramin its nice to know that you that u like elephants i too love it... Gentle Giant's ... i don't think a individual can adopt an elephant these days.... and i don't remember any elephant stories as of now.

            back to topic... yes u r right with general aspects of current politics... but can u tell me when the golden age existed where depravation doesn't existed in politics? .... politics gives power... always human tendency is to abuse power. the so called Good World never going to come forever .... well started to believe "Strongest will survive".
            “I want to feel passion, I want to feel pain. I want to weep at the sound of your name. Come make me laugh, come make me cry... just make me feel alive.”

            If you wish to be loved, show more of your faults than your virtues. - Edward Bulwer-Lytton


            Comment

            • zubin
              Member
              • Aug 2006
              • 1567

              #7
              Originally posted by indian_blues View Post
              Ramin its nice to know that you that u like elephants i too love it... Gentle Giant's ... i don't think a individual can adopt an elephant these days.... and i don't remember any elephant stories as of now.

              back to topic... yes u r right with general aspects of current politics... but can u tell me when the golden age existed where depravation doesn't existed in politics? .... politics gives power... always human tendency is to abuse power. the so called Good World never going to come forever .... well started to believe "Strongest will survive".
              past doesn't predict the future. conditions change, and there is no single "human nature". there's the basic starting point with the fallacy of that arguments. In fact, conditions show that currently there is a bigger interest is getting things right, through logic and honestly, as THAT seems to be the greatest natural commodity right now. People want results, answers, they want to trust others, speak honestly and logically. The "market" is there, and curruption is out-dated. That's the idea.
              Take him and cut him out in little stars,
              and he will make the face of heaven so fine,
              that all the world will be in love with night,
              and pay no worship to the garish sun

              - Shakespeare

              "In all intellectual debates, both sides tend to be correct in what they affirm, and wrong in what they deny." - JS Mill

              Comment

              • zubin
                Member
                • Aug 2006
                • 1567

                #8
                or should I say that's the fact?
                Take him and cut him out in little stars,
                and he will make the face of heaven so fine,
                that all the world will be in love with night,
                and pay no worship to the garish sun

                - Shakespeare

                "In all intellectual debates, both sides tend to be correct in what they affirm, and wrong in what they deny." - JS Mill

                Comment

                • indian_blues
                  Member
                  • Aug 2006
                  • 1893

                  #9
                  i really contradict what you said sir. i don't see that situations are changing really. Maybe past doesn't predict future but it taught lots of lesson, but im afraid that we are bad students. Yes people want answers but which people you are talking abt... i will take them as poor and helpless one's who cant make changes... they always want answers but they never got what they wanted... they dont have the power of decision making. sorry to say this even though im not a pessimist the future is pathetic.

                  well i will welcome if u present your facts.
                  “I want to feel passion, I want to feel pain. I want to weep at the sound of your name. Come make me laugh, come make me cry... just make me feel alive.”

                  If you wish to be loved, show more of your faults than your virtues. - Edward Bulwer-Lytton


                  Comment

                  • zubin
                    Member
                    • Aug 2006
                    • 1567

                    #10
                    facts and logic together. The fact is that once human beings are done exploring the earth, they can't run and hide or kill each other as easily. The only place left to explore is under water, but humans can't live underwater. So they're forced to get along, and it benefits everyone.

                    The basic, very self-evident logic here is first that the past doesn't predict the future, second that current conditions are unique in comparison to any other time in history.

                    The more difficult thing is to see cultural progress coming out of current conditions, and this is where you're having problems. I agree: it could go either way. The world may get involved in a nuclear war and sustain abject poverty. But that's not the point... The point is that first, it is not necessariliy so. Second, it is in our hands to prevent this from happening. If you accept the basic idea of a market force, then you will agree that if "peace" is "hot", then that is what will be bought. It is up to us to make peace hot.

                    But to make this argument convincing, there is one more fact (and a couple of cousin facts) that need to be stated. But it seals the deal. They are: 1) people do not have a negative human nature by design. Why? Because people are capable of being good or bad, again depending on what's hot for them. 2) People benefit from peace, cooperation, honesty and justice. Only a minority of people "lose", but even they win... This establishes that peace, cooperation, honesty and justice are easily marketable and capable of being hot. 3) These things are already expressed and exposed. Its the tipping point: Which way will it go? It could go either way, so the idea is to strengthen the way that is better for everyone instead of strengthening that way that everyone will regret. People are doing this already and its a very strong force in the world right now, and likely to expand to prevent war, etc.

                    So my claim is that: There is the likelihood for a just, honest, cooperative and peaceful global order.

                    It is proven by the chain in logic from the following facts:

                    1) People are not good or bad by "nature"
                    2) Past conditions enabled benefits through conquering and exploration
                    3) In current conditions, due to the exhausting of space, the retaliative force of individuals and societies, and the importance of reputation for long term sustainability of power and trust, it benefits everyone, and most people don't lose anything at all, for peace and cooperation
                    4) This benefit is something that is already argued and is a strong force, in addition working with human logic, sense of morality, and sense of regret
                    5) Conclusion: It can be made stronger and cause a tipping point from the point of no return

                    As you can see, the argument is valid. It follows from the premises that the conclusion is true. You'll notice that the conclusion isn't absolute however: "It can be made...".

                    So if you disagree with the conclusion, you'll have to tell me which premise your disagree with.
                    Last edited by zubin; 02-22-2007, 07:38 AM.
                    Take him and cut him out in little stars,
                    and he will make the face of heaven so fine,
                    that all the world will be in love with night,
                    and pay no worship to the garish sun

                    - Shakespeare

                    "In all intellectual debates, both sides tend to be correct in what they affirm, and wrong in what they deny." - JS Mill

                    Comment

                    • indian_blues
                      Member
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 1893

                      #11
                      "The condition of man is already close to satiety and arrogance, and there is danger of destruction of everything in existence."

                      - a Brahmin to Onesicritus, 327 BC, reported in Strabo's Geography


                      ok you are optimistic and I'm pessimistic on this thread.

                      Originally posted by joubin View Post
                      facts and logic together. The fact is that once human beings are done exploring the earth, they can't run and hide or kill each other as easily. The only place left to explore is under water, but humans can't live underwater. So they're forced to get along, and it benefits everyone.
                      Fact is nearly 99% of earth is been explored and exploited. I don't think human race will extinct by themselves BUT there is enough difference exist between them to send themselves to the verge of extinction. I believe surely they gonna destroy everything they have.

                      Originally posted by joubin View Post
                      The basic, very self-evident logic here is first that the past doesn't predict the future, second that current conditions are unique in comparison to any other time in history.
                      you are horribly wrong. how come u can say that the current conditions are unique, i don't think so. Russian nuclear arms can destroy the face of earth for nearly 200 times. Do u think this existed hundred years before? Did Nuclear Holocust word existed in Alexander, Napolean period? surely past wars could inflicted big damage to the human population but in future big scale wars surely gonna "BOOM OUR EARTH".

                      Originally posted by joubin View Post
                      1) people do not have a negative human nature by design. Why? Because people are capable of being good or bad, again depending on what's hot for them.

                      2) People benefit from peace, cooperation, honesty and justice. Only a minority of people "lose", but even they win... This establishes that peace, cooperation, honesty and justice are easily marketable and capable of being hot.

                      3) These things are already expressed and exposed. Its the tipping point: Which way will it go? It could go either way, so the idea is to strengthen the way that is better for everyone instead of strengthening that way that everyone will regret. People are doing this already and its a very strong force in the world right now, and likely to expand to prevent war, etc.
                      "Human basically is an Animal"

                      If human is an animal the strongest will survive. Yes its easy to be positive than negative for us but think the negative thinkers have dangerous weapons than positive ones. Do you know how Red indians extincted from america? do u know the numbers of jews killed in the hands of hitler? do u know how many animals and birds are added in the extinction list every year? I'm not too pessimistic but this is reality if we want to survive we have to make sacrifices.... these are sacrifices.

                      Originally posted by joubin View Post
                      So my claim is that: There is the likelihood for a just, honest, cooperative and peaceful global order.
                      this is day dream.

                      Originally posted by joubin View Post
                      1) People are not good or bad by "nature"
                      2) Past conditions enabled benefits through conquering and exploration
                      3) In current conditions, due to the exhausting of space, the retaliative force of individuals and societies, and the importance of reputation for long term sustainability of power and trust, it benefits everyone, and most people don't lose anything at all, for peace and cooperation
                      4) This benefit is something that is already argued and is a strong force, in addition working with human logic, sense of morality, and sense of regret
                      5) Conclusion: It can be made stronger and cause a tipping point from the point of no return
                      I agree with first point but they will do anything for their survival for their particular community, race, nation, religion, race and blah blah differences.

                      yes due to space exhaustion people are forced to live together, just think different kind of people living in a house where food and energy resources in the verge of extinction...its going to be pathetic for them.

                      you want to be an angel... i dont want to be a devil but an human who is realistic.
                      “I want to feel passion, I want to feel pain. I want to weep at the sound of your name. Come make me laugh, come make me cry... just make me feel alive.”

                      If you wish to be loved, show more of your faults than your virtues. - Edward Bulwer-Lytton


                      Comment

                      • indian_blues
                        Member
                        • Aug 2006
                        • 1893

                        #12
                        Ramin i think u love seeing this video.

                        Charlie Chaplin in the Great dictator

                        yes we get emotional seeing it but in reality it sounds too absurd isnt?
                        “I want to feel passion, I want to feel pain. I want to weep at the sound of your name. Come make me laugh, come make me cry... just make me feel alive.”

                        If you wish to be loved, show more of your faults than your virtues. - Edward Bulwer-Lytton


                        Comment

                        • mike435
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2006
                          • 2104

                          #13
                          wow man if he thogh that thene what would he say now

                          a good complimant to that is
                          a song by john lenin
                          were he says
                          what it would be if there weere no boarders
                          no relligion
                          no nationalisom
                          it was a very popular song

                          thanks very mch
                          i had no idea he spoke in any of the movie nice to finaly put a voice on the image i am going to post some stuff about it intresting person
                          why did he get deported


                          G-d determines who walks into your life....It is up to you to decide who you let walk away, who you let stay, and who you refuse to let go.


                          Comment

                          • zubin
                            Member
                            • Aug 2006
                            • 1567

                            #14
                            Originally posted by indian_blues View Post
                            [B]

                            ok you are optimistic and I'm pessimistic on this thread.
                            What do you mean by "optimist"?


                            you are horribly wrong. how come u can say that the current conditions are unique, i don't think so. Russian nuclear arms can destroy the face of earth for nearly 200 times. Do u think this existed hundred years before? Did Nuclear Holocust word existed in Alexander, Napolean period? surely past wars could inflicted big damage to the human population but in future big scale wars surely gonna "BOOM OUR EARTH".
                            do you know what unique means?


                            this is day dream.
                            This makes no argument as to the reality of the situation.

                            I agree with first point but they will do anything for their survival for their particular community, race, nation, religion, race and blah blah differences.

                            yes due to space exhaustion people are forced to live together, just think different kind of people living in a house where food and energy resources in the verge of extinction...its going to be pathetic for them.
                            Stick to the argument. The validity of an argument is proof of the argument if the premises are correct. You agree with the first point. You don't agree with the next ones? You're saying that sharing food and energy resources does not benefit people or that it does, but people are irrational?

                            you want to be an angel... i dont want to be a devil but an human who is realistic.
                            I want to be an angel??? how am I being an "angel"?
                            Take him and cut him out in little stars,
                            and he will make the face of heaven so fine,
                            that all the world will be in love with night,
                            and pay no worship to the garish sun

                            - Shakespeare

                            "In all intellectual debates, both sides tend to be correct in what they affirm, and wrong in what they deny." - JS Mill

                            Comment

                            • indian_blues
                              Member
                              • Aug 2006
                              • 1893

                              #15
                              Originally posted by joubin View Post
                              What do you mean by "optimist"?
                              A person disposed to take a favourable view of things is an optimist.



                              Originally posted by joubin View Post
                              do you know what unique means?


                              Originally posted by joubin View Post
                              I want to be an angel??? how am I being an "angel"?
                              I seen a white ring above ur head.

                              i still stick with my view the future doesn't look positive for humans.
                              “I want to feel passion, I want to feel pain. I want to weep at the sound of your name. Come make me laugh, come make me cry... just make me feel alive.”

                              If you wish to be loved, show more of your faults than your virtues. - Edward Bulwer-Lytton


                              Comment

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