Is monogamy naive?

[maryam9]

here are my replies - and yeah, there are a lot of grey areas, and im no psychologist. I can see what you're saying aswell.

Originally Posted by maryam_shirazi_9
before moving onto the next question, i want to get your opinion/views on this:

i still strongly think that when a lover abuses their partner, it is intentional. This is because naturally, you always care for your partner.You do everything in your strife to make sure they have the best- if anyone else shows any sign of potentially harming them (e.g. mugger on street) then good luck to the outsider, coz youll defend them, etc. So, basically its an instinct to protect your partner, whether youre a man protecting the woman or vice versa.

Originally Posted by joubin
Yeah but what I'm saying is that the abuser doesn't see his actions as "abuse", so he doesn't "intentionally abuse", he intentionally does something else. Just like you said, he sees himself as, eg, protecting. His action is intentional, but intentional protection not intentional abuse, because he doesn't see him/herself as abusing. It is even possible that he sees himself as the victim of abuse and simply defending himself. Since he doesn't see that he is "abusing", how can he be intentionally abusing?

What im saying is that they *must* see it as abuse, because of many things such as
-sudden change in tone of victims partner
-change in facial expression of victim
etc
this is where i said this -

Originally Posted by maryam_shirazi_9
After the age of 5, people know the difference between right and wrong, so your conscience is what guides your actions. You can still see the facial expression of an abused partner whilst the abusive act is being carried out, so shouldnt that stop you from doing the abusive act towards another?

i read your reply and i do agree that some people may distort things in their head

~~~

Originally Posted by maryam_shirazi_9
Remember the farsi saying:
"bishin, befarmaid, betarmag - hamashoon yey maan-ee daran"

Originally Posted by joubin
I like the philosophy of many Iranian phrases. What does this one mean?

Literal translation - when offering a person a seat, you can either say
"please, take a seat"
"sit down", or
"sit the hell down", but they all have the same meaning.

General meaning - there are different ways of saying the same thing, so why not speak with a kinder tongue? [QUOTE]
~~~~
ok, so lets move onto the next discussion

[abadani69]

Manzooret chi e Ramin?in che rabti be moderator boodan dare? I was serious in what i said.

abadan az moghei ke moderator neesti kheyli khub moderate meekoni!

Maryam khanom, I wasn't joking. Maybe you persian don't follow what our profit used to do, but there are many arabs who is following the profit Mohammad's Law. There is no shame to have more than 1 wife. As long as you can support all of them, then you shouldn't have any problem.

And about beating women if not having a boy, I agree with you, they shouldn't make any diff between their kids, but back then the readon that they wanted boy was because after they die they wanted their sons take over, but right now this has changed.

because back in the day, Muhammad brought that law to essentially protect the women, because society was mis-treating women (i.e. people were building a wall around the baby to kill it if a woman gave birth to a baby girl rather than a baby boy, they were beating women etc)

Muhammad brought that law because having more than 1 wife enabled the man to protect women.

but times have changed since way back then - those things no longer happen, so that law is obsolete for the 21st century. Society now accepts men and women equally now

i know your original post was said in a jokey way

[zubin]

Manzooret chi e Ramin?in che rabti be moderator boodan dare? I was serious in what i said.

Nagoftam serious nabudi, faghat be nazaram nakhodagah moderatore khubi shodi!

anyway, mohem neestesh...

[abadani69]

loooool ramin,mikhay begi ke moderatore khoobi naboodam on moghe baba ey val

anyways,az bahsemoon kharej nashim

Nagoftam serious nabudi, faghat be nazaram nakhodagah moderatore khubi shodi!

anyway, mohem neestesh...

[indian_blues]

What are your opinions about whether people prefer multiple partners or not. Even if they shouldn't act on their preference, do you think they generally have that preference?

IMO

Since Male and Female are two opposite poles it is impossible to generalize their characteristics for both.

Is the question for the one's who already have a partner?

First we need to analyze what is the need for one to have multiple partners? which drives them? is't sex? money? or some other factors?

I think male are more adventurous, explorative than females. I think males do prefer multiple partners becoz of their natural characteristics and i think they wish to have it secretly not damaging the relationship with their primary partner, coz as she was the backbone for his family. The illegal relationship must be ending abruptly coz it was just started to satisfy their short term needs.

[zubin]

IMO

Is the question for the one's who already have a partner?

Sure.

I think male are more adventurous, explorative than females.

Really, what makes you think that?

And, even if males have more of these things, it doesn't mean that they have more of a preference for different partners. Or does it?

i think they wish to have it secretly not damaging the relationship with their primary partner, coz as she was the backbone for his family. The illegal relationship must be ending abruptly coz it was just started to satisfy their short term needs.

I'm with you here. I see this as somewhat of a reality as well, but maybe a problematic reality that could be altered in a more healthy way. My follow up questions for you are this:

Would it be better if both in the relationship agreed instead of either making it a secret?

Is it possible and desirable to satisfy your sexual urges before having a serious relationship?

First we need to analyze what is the need for one to have multiple partners? which drives them? is't sex? money? or some other factors?

I agree that the factors are important. Perhaps we could learn the conditions where relationships are the most healthy.

[zubin]

here are my replies - and yeah, there are a lot of grey areas, and im no psychologist. I can see what you're saying aswell.


What im saying is that they *must* see it as abuse, because of many things such as
-sudden change in tone of victims partner
-change in facial expression of victim
etc
this is where i said this -

i read your reply and i do agree that some people may distort things in their head

~~~


Literal translation - when offering a person a seat, you can either say
"please, take a seat"
"sit down", or
"sit the hell down", but they all have the same meaning.

General meaning - there are different ways of saying the same thing, so why not speak with a kinder tongue?
~~~~
ok, so lets move onto the next discussion

Thanks Maryam. The zarbol masal was particularly interesting!

[indian_blues]

Really, what makes you think that?

And, even if males have more of these things, it doesn't mean that they have more of a preference for different partners. Or does it?

Reason Male are stronger sex. They have the free will to do than females. Sex becomes a basic need after a person attends an age. Humans do have desire to taste different foods. . "Basically Humans are Animals", let us honor the quote.

Would it be better if both in the relationship agreed instead of either making it a secret?

No it makes the case worse. It is against the ethics. Most of the religion and all culture preaches "One Woman for One man", yes exceptions exists. No men or women wants their partner to have a serious relationship with someone, for women it threatens her security and survival and for men its a matter of sexual morals. Well maybe they could agree on satisfying their sexual desires but i would say no one would want to share their partner with other as a long term relationship.

I heard that Germans share their partners with their friends for a short term (for sexual purpose). I'm not sure where in Germany and I cannot confirm this but I read it somewhere. Y I'm saying is it would be possible for short term.

Personally Adulteration is wrong.

Is it possible and desirable to satisfy your sexual urges before having a serious relationship?

Personally I won't. I think these desires should be satisfied with the righteous person.

[zubin]

I think males do prefer multiple partners becoz of their natural characteristics and i think they wish to have it secretly not damaging the relationship with their primary partner, coz as she was the backbone for his family. The illegal relationship must be ending abruptly coz it was just started to satisfy their short term needs.

So the girl doesn't "know" and is therefore naive? Or does she subconsciously know that her partner is with others, or suspects, and doesn't care?

[indian_blues]

So the girl doesn't "know" and is therefore naive? Or does she subconsciously know that her partner is with others, or suspects, and doesn't care?

I go with ur latter part. I think its kinda natural.

[zubin]

I go with ur latter part. I think its kinda natural.

Yes, but I think this may be limited to Indian culture right now.

[indian_blues]

Exactly. Not only India but all strong cultural oriented societies.

[indian_blues]

What about the concept of having concubines in Iranian society?

[zubin]

What about the concept of having concubines in Iranian society?

India, what I'm saying is that Iranian men and women have a different mental framework on this issue than Indians. I even think Westerners are different in this respect than Indians.

My hypothesis is that Indians realize the unrealistic restrictions of immature partnerships, and are thus more tolerant. I feel that in Iranian and Western culture, there is a push towards not having immature partnerships to begin with, and that being with someone else when you're in a relationship, unless with explicit agreement, is always wrong.

I personally think that if this difference is true, it is complementary.

[maryam9]

I heard that Germans share their partners with their friends for a short term (for sexual purpose). I'm not sure where in Germany and I cannot confirm this but I read it somewhere. Y I'm saying is it would be possible for short term.

happens everywhere, not just in Germany. You even get adverts at backs of newspapers etc. Just watch a few Jerry Springer episodes and youll know what i mean! (dont know if u get that show over there in india, though).

People in the West are more open when talking about these things, but just because they dont talk about this in the East, doesnt mean it doesnt happen.