Eye On Israel

[zubin]

Iran is a safe country because, despite internal injustice, it uses logic in the world stage and has much support. I'm proud that Iran is safe for this reason.

[mike435]

iran only pretends to use logic
acctualy i really cant say i am only basing my assumtion on the actions of ahmadinejad who is a populas so never mined

[zubin]

where has MA not used logic on the world stage mike? back up your words with arguments.

you know what, never mind. I really don't have the hosele for your wild statements anyway.

[Khorsheed]

I think that we should all back what we say . .

[zubin]

do you mean this as a general statement or do you think some people don't use logic in comparison to others?

[Khorsheed]

well i kind of mean both . .
people should always have back up to what they say . . no matter the subject .. .
and to logic . .to all people have this qaulity and even if they do . .they might sometimes sound so irrational . .that. . you might think they have no logic

[zubin]

I guess that's where subjective vs. objective logic becomes important. Something might be logical in a person's mind, but it may not be logical in the real world. That's why when someone starts an argument or fully disagrees with someone else's opinion out of nowhere (as in this case), it should be in their personality to be willing to bring evidence and logic for what they say; otherwise they can't be taken seriously and clearly have an ulterior motive.

[Khorsheed]

yes i agree. . .because if the real world feels you lack the logic you might have in no matter the case. . they might think that you dont know what your saying and simply state that you just throw words without any back-up equipement. . now. . as mike .. which he still didnt supply his back-up.. you and i might feel that he just wants to say anything. . just in the sense of saying. . but if he raises a back-up with logic included. .. we might look at his argument in a diffrent light

[zubin]

actually I've debated with mike in-depth and can conclude that he has an unshakable allegiance no matter what the evidence.

One of our discussions started on this thread, page 4 and went to the end:

http://www.tapesh.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5628&page=4

There are like 5 counter-arguments to Mike's use of the word "terrorism". The word "terrorism" is the basis for arguments against Hamas, "justifying" the killing of innocent Palestinians and war with Muslims in general.

However, there are many reasons why this is an abuse of power which unjustifiably causes ongoing war and the death of innocents. First, the definition of terrorism is flawed, with erroneous assumptions about the mental state and intentions of the actors. Second, the same definition would apply to the people who use them (e.g. US & Israel) against their false enemies.

I've been down the mike road in quite an in-depth manner, but thanks for your advice anyway.

[mike435]

guys i am retracktic my statement because i dont have evidance for it
it was just a gut reaction

[mike435]

acctualy i think it was because ahmadinejad wanted to deni the holocust
which was one of the most documanted evants in the history of man kined
but i will still retract my statement because i done have alot of evidance
and maybe that was just a fluke accorance by the monkey

[zubin]

MA doesn't actually believe the holocaust didn't happen! He states that he "denied it" because he should be allowed to cast doubt on it so there can be objective discussion on the issue! Anyone who understands Farsi and looks at the context of MA's words knows that was his intention.

1) Here is MA clearly clarifying his words:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,418660,00.html

Ahmadinejad: Look here, my views are quite clear. We are saying that if the Holocaust occurred, then Europe must draw the consequences and that it is not Palestine that should pay the price for it. If it did not occur, then the Jews have to go back to where they came from. I believe that the German people today are also prisoners of the Holocaust. Sixty million people died in the Second World War. World War II was a gigantic crime. We condemn it all. We are against bloodshed, regardless of whether a crime was committed against a Muslim or against a Christian or a Jew. But the question is: Why among these 60 million victims are only the Jews the center of attention?


2)Another Interview: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...67_page3.shtml

"What I did say was, if this is a reality, if this is real, where did it take place?" Ahmadinejad replied.

"In Germany," Wallace said.

"Who — who caused this in Europe?" Ahmadinejad asked.

"In Europe. If I may … so …what you're suggesting — one moment — what you're suggesting then, that Israel should be over in Germany because that's where the holocaust took place?" Wallace asked.

"I'm not saying that, mind you," the president replied.

But he has said Israel could be moved to Europe, or even to the United States but it shouldn't be in Palestine.

"Well, if an atrocity was committed in Germany or Europe for that matter, why should the Palestinians answer for this?" the president asked. "They had no role to play in this. Why on the pretext of the Holocaust they have occupied Palestine? Millions of people have been made refugees. Thousands of people to-date have been killed, sir. Thousands of people have been put in prison. Well, at the very moment, a great war is raging because of that."

3) http://www.cfr.org/publication/11498...r_members.html

Differing views were apparent from the first question of the evening, when Peter G. Peterson, CFR's chairman, questioned Ahmadinejad’s frequent assertion that the Holocaust was a “myth” and that more research had to be done to ascertain the truth on whether the six million Jews who perished in World War II were victims of Nazi genocide. Peterson noted that he and David Rockefeller, who was also a participant in the meeting, had visited Auschwitz, the Nazi death camp in Poland, and he said that the majority of American Jews and non-Jews alike were “horrified” by Ahmadinejad's assertion that the Holocaust was a “myth.” The Iranian said he doubted Americans all held such a view.

He repeated what he has said in previous interviews—namely that some sixty million people died in World War II, and so why the special attention paid to the question of Jews? He said the question deserved more study. He then went on to say the real question is why the Palestinians had to “pay for that” by being forced to give up their lands, and go into exile. He likened the Palestinians who have been killed to “genocide.”


READ IT, ITS CRYSTAL CLEAR, AND STOP EXAGGERATING AND MYSTIFYING THE SITUATION FOR PEOPLE WITH YOUR PROPAGANDA

[mike435]

ok

he didnt denouce it

[mike435]

how is it logic when he is micing up the creation of israel and the holocust

zionisom was not the result of holocust
israel was not a result of holocust

wether their was or wasnt a holocust that wouldnt mean that their would or wouldnt be a israel

and even if the golocust did affecet the creation of the state which it did it dosent mean it was the reason

i think the holocust made it more speedy or was the last push


i made a mistake in ahamdinejad does have logic nut now more nd more i think even logic doesent even yield a just result

again i take it back if it makes you guys feel beter i will say ahmadinejad has logic abd i mean it to

you know i think the reason why i said that was because i allways belived with logic you will allways arive at the one truth
that logic can only yield one answer that their wont be subjective truth but unilateral truth

Dear jubin
thank you for making me go and research
after your posting i nolonger just accept that ahmadinejad denaid the holoacost
and ever since your posting of the transcripts and how when translating there could be descepencies i have tryed to watch and listen to as many iranian media broadcastings especialy ahmadinejad's in original farsi


true ahmadinejad doesnot outright denai the holocust
but in confirming that fact i found much more disturbing stuff
i am now more than ever discusted by the iranian government
what i saw comming from the iranian tv was horrible i wish it was just him and the denail
it was discusting seeing the iranian broadcasting network desecrating the holocust left and right with the use so called scholoars and religious figures
worse part is in my research iran was only the tip of the iceburge compared to what propaganda and antisemetic things were being said in the arab world

check out MEMRI TV was a major source http://memritv.org/

also in regard to him not denaing in many of the videos he uses words like begim, agar, ... before talking about the holocust he does not denai but he questions its occurance or atleast he implies it

everyone should watch memri tv especialy if you dont live in the region gives you a prespective of were the hate comes from
true western actions are a contributer but i think much worse is the media

http://memritv.org/

[Rasputin]

طبق نظرسنجى مؤسسه ,تله*اسكر,، اسرائيلي*ها درباره اقدام يكجانبه اسرائيل عليه ايران اختلاف*نظر دارند.
به گزارش ,ايلنا,، براساس نظرسنجى مؤسسه ,تله*اسكر, كه در روزنامه اسرائيلى ,معاريو, منتشر شد، در صورت شكست مذاكرات، 46 درصد اسرائيلي*ها با حمله يكجانبه اسرائيلى عليه ايران مخالفند و اين در حالى كه 49 درصد با اين اقدام موافق هستند.
بنابراين گزارش، 24 درصد از پاسخ*دهندگان بر اين باورند كه آمريكا و اروپا مي*توانند از طريق قطعنامه*هاى شوراى امنيت سازمان*ملل*متحد با استفاده از اقدامات صلح*آميز مانع برنامه هسته*اى ايران شوند در حالى كه 75 درصد از اسرائيلي*ها با اين ايده مخالف هستند.