Did Arabs Help the Nazis Kill Jews?

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  • Rasputin
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2005
    • 63906

    #1

    Did Arabs Help the Nazis Kill Jews?

    Did Arabs Help the Nazis Kill Jews?



    By Robert Satloff

    Mr. Satloff is executive director of The Washington Institute for Near East Policy and the author of Among the Righteous: Lost Stories from the Holocaust's Long Reach into Arab Lands.




    At every stage of the Nazi, Vichy and Fascist persecution of Jews in Arab lands, and in every place that it occurred, Arabs played a supporting role. At times, Arabs were essential to the process. At other times, the Arab role was passive yet still critical. And there were those occasions when certain Arabs did more than just collaborate -- they made an already trying situation intolerable.

    If there is one word to characterize the attitude of most Arabs toward Jews during the war years, it is “indifference.” That word appears time and again in Jewish accounts of the period. A veteran of the Bizerte labor camp, for example, described in his memoirs how Arabs reacted when they saw Jewish workers filing through the streets, pail and shovel over their shoulders: “The Arabs regarded them indifferently,” he wrote. An historian of the period, writing in the early post-war years, observed that the “attitude of the great majority of the non-Jewish population of Tunis conformed to that of the [French] authorities: there were gestures of sympathy, but in large there was glacial indifference.”


    Indifference has many shades. At one end of the spectrum, indifference could refer to a certain steely stoicism, a my-hands-are-tied inaction. As harrowing as life was for Jews in Arab lands during the war, the mass of Arabs suffered considerable hardships, too. Goods were scarce, food was rationed, and hunger and disease took a heavy toll. Politically, Arabs were not on sure ground either. To many Germans and their European partners, Arabs were only marginally less inferior than Jews. As one German officer said ominously to an Arab enjoying the comeuppance of Jews near Tunis, “Your time will come. We will finish with the Jews and then we will take care of you.” If indifference meant that Arabs were primarily concerned with securing the means for their own survival – finding food, shelter, work, and so on – and could not spare the effort to act on their natural human sympathy toward their Jewish compatriots, then theirs was an understandable, even legitimate “indifference,” born of necessity.

    At the other end of the spectrum, indifference could also reflect a callous disregard for Jews that had lived – simultaneously protected, tolerated and subordinate – within Arab societies for hundreds of years. If that is what contemporary observers meant when they used the term, then the indifferent were, in a sense, tacitly complicit in the crimes of the foreigners. It is clear that, whatever their attitude toward the fate of the Jews, many Arabs were not indifferent to the coming of the Jews’ tormentors. “Go, go, I would wish to be with you, Hitler,” were the lyrics of one popular Berber song of this period. The head of the Vichy regime, Marshal Pétain, had a position of particular respect in the eyes of many Arabs, because of his age, his military exploits, his emphasis on family, his carefully crafted persona of personal modesty. As Algerian Professor Ahmed Ibnou Zekri, a member of Vichy’s National Council, said “For us Muslims, Marshal Pétain is ‘a sid’ [an honored lord].”

    Clarity on this issue is important: By virtually all accounts, the mass of Arabs neither participated in nor actively supported the anti-Jewish campaign that European fascists brought to North Africa. The preoccupation of most Arabs was survival; for those of the political class, the emerging challenge to colonial rule was a much greater concern than contributing to the persecution of Jews. But if one can excuse those Arabs who took satisfaction at the collapse of the French republic before the forces of Nazi Germany, the general sense of welcome accorded to European persecutors of Jews bespoke an indifference to the fate of the Jews that was hardly benign. In the view of many Arabs, if the humbling of French colonialists brought with it the humbling of the Jews, too, then so be it.





    iran
  • golgol85
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 4957

    #2
    I knew this was coming. Of course Arabs, and by Arabs they mean MUSLIMS had to do with the killing of Jews. How else can the Jews justify what they are doing now to muslims? So the point of this book is to justify what is happening to the muslims now, the tables have turned and now the muslims are the ones being exterminated with one catch: some the people being killed arent even muslim, they just live in muslim countries like Lebanon. What has the world come to? An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

    Comment

    • IQ
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2005
      • 5035

      #3
      I think Past is Past.

      Comment

      • IQ
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2005
        • 5035

        #4
        I thought you don't care about arabs and jewish situations mr. redwine

        Comment

        • mike435
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2006
          • 2104

          #5
          saying fact is not caring

          stating opinion is caring

          redwine is a contributer
          wether he cares or not doesnot matter
          many time he adds some of the most random things


          G-d determines who walks into your life....It is up to you to decide who you let walk away, who you let stay, and who you refuse to let go.


          Comment

          • golgol85
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2006
            • 4957

            #6
            so guys, what are your opinions? you heard mine, the least you can do is share yours.

            Comment

            • abadani69
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2005
              • 21339

              #7
              No Opinion at this time. This is discrimination. You can't really say all arabs are muslims. There are lots of christians in Lebanon. That's my only opinio. I really don't know who killed him. Atleast I didn't j/k

              Comment

              • golgol85
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2006
                • 4957

                #8
                Why is being a muslim viewed with such stigma? because of the wrong choice of a few, the rest of the muslim community must suffer, must be stigmatized, must be murdered, must be racially profiled. Not all people in a certain community are bad, why must we generalize? why do muslims not like jews and jews not like muslims? most of the time, its just because the muslim was told that if a person is a jew, then they are automatically bad and the opposite holds true too, that the jew was told that muslims are all bad. There are no absolutes in life. There are always exceptions. There are good jews and good muslims. Just because one arab was apathetic doesnt mean all were apathetic to the killing of Jews. the ignorance in the world upsets me.

                Comment

                • abadani69
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2005
                  • 21339

                  #9
                  ha in yeki ro khoob omadi
                  Originally posted by golgol85 View Post
                  Why is being a muslim viewed with such stigma? because of the wrong choice of a few, the rest of the muslim community must suffer, must be stigmatized, must be murdered, must be racially profiled. Not all people in a certain community are bad, why must we generalize? why do muslims not like jews and jews not like muslims? most of the time, its just because the muslim was told that if a person is a jew, then they are automatically bad and the opposite holds true too, that the jew was told that muslims are all bad. There are no absolutes in life. There are always exceptions. There are good jews and good muslims. Just because one arab was apathetic doesnt mean all were apathetic to the killing of Jews. the ignorance in the world upsets me.

                  Comment

                  • Rasputin
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2005
                    • 63906

                    #10
                    Originally posted by IQ View Post
                    I thought you don't care about arabs and jewish situations mr. redwine
                    I still don't care about them ! i am just searchin and reading lots materials about them by history perspectives.Read all the article please.thx :=) .

                    iran

                    Comment

                    • mike435
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 2104

                      #11
                      Originally posted by golgol85 View Post
                      I knew this was coming. Of course Arabs, and by Arabs they mean MUSLIMS had to do with the killing of Jews. How else can the Jews justify what they are doing now to muslims? So the point of this book is to justify what is happening to the muslims now, the tables have turned and now the muslims are the ones being exterminated with one catch: some the people being killed arent even muslim, they just live in muslim countries like Lebanon. What has the world come to? An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
                      How else can the Jews justify what they are doing now to muslims?

                      this is eronious
                      it discuses me
                      grotesk way of thinking



                      if jews were to play that game than right after wwii they should have carried out terrrorist attacks to kill german and european civillians

                      instead they came out and contributed to hummanity
                      jews extreminiating muslims
                      how can yu even have this mined set

                      i think this book like many other books sheds some light what contributions the other people made during the holocust this case arabs
                      whats wrong with that it is not to get even
                      you know i didnt even think of it that way untill i read your post and i am discusted. I didnt even associate arabs with muslims until you said it,


                      middle east

                      your way of thinking is very flawed and prejudice at best

                      and you know history will revial more
                      about wht others did in the holocust too


                      G-d determines who walks into your life....It is up to you to decide who you let walk away, who you let stay, and who you refuse to let go.


                      Comment

                      • golgol85
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 4957

                        #12
                        Originally posted by mike435 View Post
                        How else can the Jews justify what they are doing now to muslims?

                        this is eronious
                        it discuses me
                        grotesk way of thinking



                        if jews were to play that game than right after wwii they should have carried out terrrorist attacks to kill german and european civillians

                        instead they came out and contributed to hummanity
                        jews extreminiating muslims
                        how can yu even have this mined set

                        i think this book like many other books sheds some light what contributions the other people made during the holocust this case arabs
                        whats wrong with that it is not to get even
                        you know i didnt even think of it that way untill i read your post and i am discusted. I didnt even associate arabs with muslims until you said it,


                        middle east

                        your way of thinking is very flawed and prejudice at best

                        and you know history will revial more
                        about wht others did in the holocust too
                        Mike. baz harfam ro kamel nakhoondi ehsasati shodi. why is it bad to think about what the reality behind the war in the middle east is all about? You know that its human nature to want to get revenge and dont tell me jews are special people who are above that. Hamamoon intoori hastim. Look at iran, the people of iran want revenge from the government, the goevernment wants revenege from the people. When there is an air strike by the lebanese on the Israelis, the Israelis have a retaliatory strike back, so dont march in here telling me revenge is a far fetched idea because its not.

                        If you had bothered to read what i say in the end of my paragraph, you would realize that i dont feel that all jews or muslims feel this way, its a select few that have such unreasonable animosity that is based on religion and cultural background. In other words, all muslims dont hate jews and all jews dont hate muslims. but the ones that do ruin it for everyone.

                        The Jews were not in a position to be able to attack germans and europeans, otherwise they would have. Their contribution to humanity was mobilizing their efforts to come together as a cultural and religious group and look at them now: they are involved in all sorts of political positions.

                        Jews arent exterminating muslims? Then what's going on Lebanon Mike?
                        Explain to me what is going on there? Is it friendly? Is it fun and games?

                        Well, you might not associate arabs with muslims, but i have news for you, you are a middle eastern yourself who isnt muslim so you make the distinction. What about the average joe bob who looks at the book, reads it and then sees you on the street and thinks you are arab because chesh abroo meshki hasti, hmm? oon fekr mikone ke harki middle eastern looking hastesh, arab hastesh va moslamoon. Again there is nothing wrong with being muslim or jewish, its the way people view both right now that concerns me.

                        See, the mike i know comes out in the end and agrees with me" history will repeat itself". Its your nice way of saying what goes around, comes around, karma bites those who are bad in the butt.

                        You cant call me prejudiced, some of my best friends are either hardcore middle eastern muslims or jews, so for you to say that i am prejudiced and my arguement flawed its your opinion, doesnt mean its right though.

                        Mike you think in a box too much, read something and try to expand on it. Try to see how someone else might interpret it, thats what i do. I looked at this book and thought, well as a middle eastern, this book isnt doing any of a favor because it makes us look like we dont care about people. Yadet bashe, you are middle eastern too.

                        Can you tell me why it seems EVERYONE was against the jews and had something to do with the holocast? I find it hard to believe ke hame mitoonan zede yek grouh bashan.

                        Look at political agenda when you analyze things mike. This is a time where all muslims are portrayed as being bad and that is not the case. So i did what i always do, i researched him. and guess what? he is jewish. hmm, now why would a jewish PhD want to make arabs (or what he really is trying to say in a politically correct way is muslims) involved with the holocast? hmm, then i saw he thinks like i do maybe. look at this passage:
                        Looking for a hopeful response to the plague of Holocaust denial sweeping across the Arab and Muslim worlds, Satloff sets off on a quest to find the Arab hero whose story would change the way Arabs view Jews, themselves, and their own history. Satloff is the author of “The Battle of Ideas in the War on Terror: Essays on U.S. Public Diplomacy in the Middle East".

                        khob, he is saying what i said, he fears that jews and arabs are misunderstanding eachother in that jews feel that arabs are "indifferent" to the holocast when this is not a fair assumption to make.

                        Comment

                        • golgol85
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2006
                          • 4957

                          #13
                          Now here is an article he wrote, take a look at it, i think its worth your time

                          The Holocaust's Arab Heroes

                          By Robert Satloff
                          Sunday, October 8, 2006; B01



                          Virtually alone among peoples of the world, Arabs appear to have won a free pass when it comes to denying or minimizing the Holocaust. Hezbollah leader Hasan Nasrallah has declared to his supporters that "Jews invented the legend of the Holocaust." Syrian President Bashar al-Assad recently told an interviewer that he doesn't have "any clue how [Jews] were killed or how many were killed." And Hamas's official Web site labels the Nazi effort to exterminate Jews "an alleged and invented story with no basis."

                          Such Arab viewpoints are not exceptional. A respected Holocaust research institution recently reported that Egypt, Qatar and Saudi Arabia all promote Holocaust denial and protect Holocaust deniers. The records of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum show that only one Arab leader at or near the highest level of government -- a young prince from a Persian Gulf state -- has ever made an official visit to the museum in its 13-year history. Not a single official textbook or educational program on the Holocaust exists in an Arab country. In Arab media, literature and popular culture, Holocaust denial is pervasive and legitimized.

                          Yet when Arab leaders and their people deny the Holocaust, they deny their own history as well -- the lost history of the Holocaust in Arab lands. It took me four years of research -- scouring dozens of archives and conducting scores of interviews in 11 countries -- to unearth this history, one that reveals complicity and indifference on the part of some Arabs during the Holocaust, but also heroism on the part of others who took great risks to save Jewish lives.

                          Neither Yad Vashem, Israel's official memorial to Holocaust victims, nor any other Holocaust memorial has ever recognized an Arab rescuer. It is time for that to change. It is also time for Arabs to recall and embrace these episodes in their history. That may not change the minds of the most radical Arab leaders or populations, but for some it could make the Holocaust a source of pride, worthy of remembrance -- rather than avoidance or denial.

                          The Holocaust was an Arab story, too. From the beginning of World War II, Nazi plans to persecute and eventually exterminate Jews extended throughout the area that Germany and its allies hoped to conquer. That included a great Arab expanse, from Casablanca to Tripoli and on to Cairo, home to more than half a million Jews.

                          Though Germany and its allies controlled this region only briefly, they made substantial headway toward their goal. From June 1940 to May 1943, the Nazis, their Vichy French collaborators and their Italian fascist allies applied in Arab lands many of the precursors to the Final Solution. These included not only laws depriving Jews of property, education, livelihood, residence and free movement, but also torture, slave labor, deportation and execution.

                          There were no death camps, but many thousands of Jews were consigned to more than 100 brutal labor camps, many solely for Jews. Recall Maj. Strasser's warning to Ilsa, the wife of the Czech underground leader, in the 1942 film "Casablanca": "It is possible the French authorities will find a reason to put him in the concentration camp here." Indeed, the Arab lands of Algeria and Morocco were the site of the first concentration camps ever liberated by Allied troops.

                          About 1 percent of Jews in North Africa (4,000 to 5,000) perished under Axis control in Arab lands, compared with more than half of European Jews. These Jews were lucky to be on the southern shores of the Mediterranean, where the fighting ended relatively early and where boats -- not just cattle cars -- would have been needed to take them to the ovens in Europe. But if U.S. and British troops had not pushed Axis forces from the African continent by May 1943, the Jews of Algeria, Libya, Morocco, Tunisia and perhaps even Egypt and Palestine almost certainly would have met the same fate as those in Europe.

                          The Arabs in these lands were not too different from Europeans: With war waging around them, most stood by and did nothing; many participated fully and willingly in the persecution of Jews; and a brave few even helped save Jews.

                          Arab collaborators were everywhere. These included Arab officials conniving against Jews at royal courts, Arab overseers of Jewish work gangs, sadistic Arab guards at Jewish labor camps and Arab interpreters who went house to house with SS officers pointing out where Jews lived. Without the help of local Arabs, the persecution of Jews would have been virtually impossible.

                          Were Arabs, then under the domination of European colonialists, merely following orders? An interviewer once posed that question to Harry Alexander, a Jew from Leipzig, Germany, who survived a notoriously harsh French labor camp at Djelfa, in the Algerian desert. "No, no, no!" he exploded in reply. "Nobody told them to beat us all the time. Nobody told them to chain us together. Nobody told them to tie us naked to a post and beat us and to hang us by our arms and hose us down, to bury us in the sand so our heads should look up and bash our brains in and urinate on our heads. . . . No, they took this into their own hands and they enjoyed what they did."

                          But not all Arabs joined with the European-spawned campaign against the Jews. The few who risked their lives to save Jews provide inspiration beyond their numbers.

                          Arabs welcomed Jews into their homes, guarded Jews' valuables so Germans could not confiscate them, shared with Jews their meager rations and warned Jewish leaders of coming SS raids. The sultan of Morocco and the bey of Tunis provided moral support and, at times, practical help to Jewish subjects. In Vichy-controlled Algiers, mosque preachers gave Friday sermons forbidding believers from serving as conservators of confiscated Jewish property. In the words of Yaacov Zrivy, from a small town near Sfax, Tunisia, "The Arabs watched over the Jews."

                          I found remarkable stories of rescue, too. In the rolling hills west of Tunis, 60 Jewish internees escaped from an Axis labor camp and banged on the farm door of a man named Si Ali Sakkat, who courageously hid them until liberation by the Allies. In the Tunisian coastal town of Mahdia, a dashing local notable named Khaled Abdelwahhab scooped up several families in the middle of the night and whisked them to his countryside estate to protect one of the women from the predations of a German officer bent on rape.

                          And there is strong evidence that the most influential Arab in Europe -- Si Kaddour Benghabrit, the rector of the Great Mosque of Paris -- saved as many as 100 Jews by having the mosque's administrative personnel give them certificates of Muslim identity, with which they could evade arrest and deportation. These men, and others, were true heroes.

                          According to the Koran: "Whoever saves one life, saves the entire world." This passage echoes the Talmud's injunction, "If you save one life, it is as if you have saved the world."

                          Arabs need to hear these stories -- both of heroes and of villains. They especially need to hear them from their own teachers, preachers and leaders. If they do, they may respond as did that one Arab prince who visited the Holocaust museum. "What we saw today," he commented after his tour, "must help us change evil into good and hate into love and war into peace."

                          rsatloff@washingtoninstitute.org


                          Robert Satloff, executive director of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, is author of "Among the Righteous: Lost Stories from the Holocaust's Long Reach into Arab Lands" (PublicAffairs).

                          Comment

                          • golgol85
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2006
                            • 4957

                            #14
                            he makes it appear as if many were anti-jews. hmm, he does save face by saying there were few good arabs, but according to the way he is explaining what has happened, he makes it seem like the percentage of the good people were only 1% and the "bad" arabs 99%. I highly doubt this, its more possible that many didnt want others to know they were helping the jews for fear of their own lives or just the fact that they felt they were doing good and didnt need to be recognized for it. Not all arabs are bad, not all muslims are bad, and not all jews are bad. We are all people before we are arab or muslim or jewish or Israeli. Look at the similar quote from the Talmud and the Koran, both do preach saving lives, but look at what is going on in the middle east. The holocast was an attempt at ethnic cleansing, what is happening in the middle east currently is nothing less, especially if it continues the way it is.

                            Comment

                            • IQ
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2005
                              • 5035

                              #15
                              Originally posted by mike435 View Post
                              saying fact is not caring

                              stating opinion is caring

                              redwine is a contributer
                              wether he cares or not doesnot matter
                              many time he adds some of the most random things

                              I know I am just messing around with redwine which I know he's kewl with that

                              Comment

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