Saudi Cleric Explains Wife Beating in Islam

[DokhtarIrooni]

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1594.htm

Too in clip ye marde arab mige ke bayas chejoori ba yek zan raftar kard. Vay ino biyaran pishe man faghat bezanamesh

[Dokhtar Bandari]

Azizam, why do you think they call them axis of evil. These Moselm clerics have created the moslem religion to what it is today. Full of hate and bigotry. That is not what Ghoran says...at least the earlier version of it...

"O Humankind! We have created you male and female and have divided you into nations and tribes that you recognize each other. The best of you in the sight of God is the one most socially aware (taqwa- literally - "extremely careful")." Koran 49:13

There has been so many changes made to ghoran that it is mind bogling. Today's moslem is not what Ghoran strived for. As a matter of fact todays' moslem are the infidels...and I can prove it.

[zubin]

I agree with both of you; emotional abuse doesn't justify physical abuse.

so what do you think is an alternative to prevent the emotional abuse from wife to husband on social issues? if we admit the problem and find a solution, we can help reform current Islam.

[DokhtarIrooni]

Nemidoonam valla.. ina adam nistam. Nemishe fekreshoono avaz kard vaghti aghleshoon kar nemikone

[Dokhtar Bandari]

I agree with both of you; emotional abuse doesn't justify physical abuse.

so what do you think is an alternative to prevent the emotional abuse from wife to husband on social issues? if we admit the problem and find a solution, we can help reform current Islam.

LOL...Zubin I had thought much higher of u than that...you mention wife to husband...as though husbands are the victims here

none the less, I believe it clearly states that no matter what your gender, the one who is socially aware will have the stronger position....but at no time it calls for any abuse at all. As you may very well agree...we only have one freedom...and that is freedom of choice. You don't like it don't do it, you don't like someone you can always walk away...why force your ways on someone else?...either gender.

Of course all of that said human social awareness in that part of the world or that particular religion (at this point in time) is still in infant stages of evolution. Lets not forget that at the time of Night Templers one million women were slaughtered, Salem witch burnining, and some jewish sects (dis)regard for women.

If we were to assume that we are all human beings regadless of the disposition of our bodies (men,women,gay), and throughly grasp that the infinit intellegent lives within and through us all...that we are all connected at the basic level of our beings...things would look a little different, a shift in perception will makes us look at things in a different way and wipe the previous illusion of seperation from our minds. Its a matter of states of consciousness. Lower states of consciousness calls for lower standards...and I can tell u with certainty the powers that hold moslems together like it that way...more control.

Let me ask you as an Iranian guy...what is your outlook on the women issues??? particularley in todays islamic world? Not as an Zartoshti...but as an Iranian man.

[mike435]

LOL...Zubin I had thought much higher of u than that...you mention wife to husband...as though husbands are the victims here

i dont think he is saying that
what he is doing is agreeing with what you said and hoing furthur to explore the otherside as well
he is just beiing objective trying to give equal weights to all sides

at least thats what i think he is doing

[zubin]

LOL...Zubin I had thought much higher of u than that...you mention wife to husband...as though husbands are the victims here

none the less, I believe it clearly states that no matter what your gender, the one who is socially aware will have the stronger position....but at no time it calls for any abuse at all. As you may very well agree...we only have one freedom...and that is freedom of choice. You don't like it don't do it, you don't like someone you can always walk away...why force your ways on someone else?...either gender.

Of course all of that said human social awareness in that part of the world or that particular religion (at this point in time) is still in infant stages of evolution. Lets not forget that at the time of Night Templers one million women were slaughtered, Salem witch burnining, and some jewish sects (dis)regard for women.

If we were to assume that we are all human beings regadless of the disposition of our bodies (men,women,gay), and throughly grasp that the infinit intellegent lives within and through us all...that we are all connected at the basic level of our beings...things would look a little different, a shift in perception will makes us look at things in a different way and wipe the previous illusion of seperation from our minds. Its a matter of states of consciousness. Lower states of consciousness calls for lower standards...and I can tell u with certainty the powers that hold moslems together like it that way...more control.

Let me ask you as an Iranian guy...what is your outlook on the women issues??? particularley in todays islamic world? Not as an Zartoshti...but as an Iranian man.

I knew I was susceptible to that reaction. You're right, but partly. There are two types of male physical abusers. There is a type that abuses over needless and sometimes even immoral issues, for instance not letting his/her wife out the house.

But there is another type of abuser. He does not abuse over immoral issues. He abuses over genuine problems. Here is where things get sensitive. Here we have to be willing to acknowledge other forms of abuse against men. It is very possible that some men go through certain types of abuse socially. Men are known to be extremely susceptible to stress. Woman are also shown to often emotionally abuse their partners.

In these cases, it is possible that the male is right, but is immoral in the sense that he does not know a better way of solving the problem. He may borrow from religious text to victimize himself, leading him to the solution.

My point is that women are part of the solution in the second case. The first case is cultural, but in the second case there may be social issues which if addressed can legitimately prevent the abuse, or at least complement other initiatives such as educational and rehabilitation initiatives.

i dont think he is saying that
what he is doing is agreeing with what you said and hoing furthur to explore the otherside as well
he is just beiing objective trying to give equal weights to all sides

at least thats what i think he is doing

Appreciate this a lot Mike. I owe you one.

[abadani69]

Pache khari dar hade khafan be in migan

Appreciate this a lot Mike. I owe you one.

[zubin]

Pache khari dar hade khafan be in migan

hasud nabash enghad. een adam bayad taghseem beshe, deal with it

plus you just want me to say that I like you more than Mike. Well after this comment by Mike, you got competition buddy!!!! but knowing Mike, I'm probably going to just get frustrated later

[Dokhtar Bandari]

Eh va..en sia sokhteh dobareh shood nekhoode' hameh ash...lol

Abadani maraz dari?

Zubin jaan you could have not said it better when trying to evade the question...lol

Anyhoooo, I am always open to a good solution...after a good abuse...lol

[abadani69]

looooooooool Dokhtar Bandariiii, you are OPEN baad az 38 .......... loooool. j/k. love you nane bozorg

[Dokhtar Bandari]

[QUOTE=abadani69;287457]looooooooool Dokhtar Bandariiii, you are OPEN baad az 38 .......... loooool. j/k. love you nane bozorg

/QUOTE]


Yani chi? dari khastegaree mikoni arva delet...zereshk..

Tazeh, naneh bozorg amateh.

[abadani69]

baba amam 40 saale pish nane bozorg shode

khastegari mikhastam bokonam vase Redwine, vali age befahme ke open hasty fekr konam he will change his mind

[zubin]

Eh va..en sia sokhteh dobareh shood nekhoode' hameh ash...lol

Abadani maraz dari?

Zubin jaan you could have not said it better when trying to evade the question...lol

Anyhoooo, I am always open to a good solution...after a good abuse...lol

But I did answer it. My view as an Iranian male is that in some cases the issue is a combination of a social problem and a problem with Islamic interpretation.

[Dokhtar Bandari]

OK, now we are talking. Maybe I did not read it correctly before..I should have known better..lol

I really like this article, it puts it in a nutshell...what do you think?

The role of women in a religious society like the Islamic Republic of Iran, pertains, simply, to the question of who and what women are, the answer to which is found in the Koran. In these sacred Islamic verses the role and nature of women have been described by Allah, or God the almighty creator of us all. Despite the traditional multi-ethnicity of Iranian society’s social fabric, however, Islam as a universal religion for the entire country has shaped the structure of Iran’s society and the mentality of its citizens. Within the Islamic religious belief and the Koran, the belief is that women were created for the main purpose of their husbands. The Iranian traditional creeds, enforced by religious beliefs especially after the Islamic revolution in 1979, has given rise to a universal psychological delusion that women are the weak elements of the society and thus, they fall in the category of God’s second-hand creatures. This belief implies the natural and divine condemnation of women, who are inferior to men. This social-religious belief has created a role for women as the mother of the kids and a great companionship for the almighty masculine men.
Any culture is a combination of religious beliefs and traditional practices. Moreover, a culture can be described, to a certain extent, in relation to its structural language. Persian language has been influenced profoundly by Arabic language, the said-to-be language of Allah, for the last fourteen centuries. In this case, the word "Adam" was adopted from koranic context and is used to mean human being or mankind. The word "Adamiat," from the root Adam, means humanity. Therefore, to define humanity in an Islamic/Iranian sense, we should focus on the characteristics of men rather than women. This masculine-religious notion of humanity reveals that the role of Iranian/Muslim women is limited to whatever they (women) can contribute to the survival of humanity (men).
The Koran 30.21 states the following:
“By another sign He (Allah) gave you wives from among yourselves, that you (men) might live in joy with them, and planted love and kindness in your hearts. Surely there are signs in this for thinking men.”
This verse is then based on fundamental religious notion that God created women in order that their husbands might have the advantage of their company. The astonishing linguistic definition of humanity in Persian language and the direct word of God regarding who and what women would seems to mandate women’s place in a deeply religious society like Iran.
The daily applications, among men’s conversations, of the word To Zani, which means, you are a woman, is a strong message not only to humiliate but also to impose the demeaning place of women in Iranian society. The inferior social place of the Iranian women has been shaped by the religious belief in which God created Eve from Adam declaring a dependent creation of woman on man. This notion of creation gives a meaning to the role of women in life when one believes that God created Eve to put an end to Adam’s loneliness on Earth.
The Arabic words naghess al aghl meaning, defected witted person, has been integrated into Persian language as a way to describe the intellectual capability of women in general. The religious taboo of not being capable judges comes from this religious sentiment. The Arabic word zaeefeh, meaning, the weaker, is used directly to address the presence of a woman in a group. This linguistic analysis allows us to glean the portrait of who and what women are in the modern Islamic Iranian society.
It is the stated duty of a woman to satisfy her husband in any possible way. This religious phenomenon is well justified both by men and by women because a believer should follow Allah’s command: “Give them their dowry for the enjoyment you have had of them as a duty.”(Koran 4.24) In other words, a husband should live with his wife to satisfy his own need and pleasure. Koran 26.166 also says, “Your wives, whom Allah has created for you.” In this verse, “for you” is taken to mean for your men in any possible way; sure enough pleasure is one of those ways. Therefore, God created women for men’s enjoyment.
The following verse from Koran 4.34 illustrates the status and the nature of woman, as is determined again by Allah:
“Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the others and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you take no further action against them. Allah is high, supreme.”
According to this verse, then, women have no authority because of their divinely determined subordinate nature. Good women are those who obey their husbands unconditionally and those whose sexuality are the property of men that should be protected by any means. It is elaborated that if a woman disobeys her husband, it is necessary for husband to her by not having sex with her (temporarily) and teaching her a lesson by some physical punishment.
The Koranic description of women determines the role of women in a theocracy-based society, such as is the case in even modern Iran. A so-deemed universal code in the Koran can be used to define women’s role and stature in any time, in any place. The sacred verses put the notion simply, “women are created for men,” and thereby sets forth the limits of women’s roles and rights in a religion-based society. Roohi

Now you see why I say they have leave our country? Its not just Islam that I am peeved with...I don't want anyone to rule our country...Islam, Jews, Christians, Americans, Arabs...so on and so forth...none of them...I want the sovereign of Persia to rule Iran, the people of Iran to rule Iran..independent of any force, abuse, oppression, foreign ideas, religion and inadequate political views in force at this time. Parsians must live as a free nation. We are a highly intelligent race that has forgotten our heritage, we have created tools that has brought humanity to what it is today...but we have given into fears and have a complete amnesia of who we truly are. Time to wake up.