Democratization of Islam

[mike435]

well it depends

example jeudisum is very big on unity

yet it would function best under individuality

and that is true with many other relligions and ideas

i think the best was is

unity throgh diffrance or individiuality or diversity

[Inquisitor]

Judaism does not have many followers as the other religions do such as Islam and Christianity, also There are many Jews who oppose Zionism.

Elaborate more, When you say I think!! It means you are not sure.

By the way You skip my questions

So what you are saying is that Democracy brings many different opposing ideas and tries to keep them together in peace, even though some of them must be false! Is that right?

At the end of the arguement, I will show you that you will contradict yourself because your logic has been taken as the foundation of your belief system

well it depends

example jeudisum is very big on unity

yet it would function best under individuality

and that is true with many other relligions and ideas

i think the best was is

unity throgh diffrance or individiuality or diversity

[Inquisitor]

well it depends

example jeudisum is very big on unity

yet it would function best under individuality

and that is true with many other relligions and ideas

i think the best was is

unity throgh diffrance or individiuality or diversity

Well, when you say it depends, Again you are contradicting yourself, You say freedom in unity is good for a "special group of people" from the other side you say it would function the best under individualism

[mike435]

Judaism does not have many followers as the other religions do such as Islam and Christianity, also There are many Jews who oppose Zionism.

Elaborate more, When you say I think!! It means you are not sure.

By the way You skip my questions

So what you are saying is that Democracy brings many different opposing ideas and tries to keep them together in peace, even though some of them must be false! Is that right?

At the end of the arguement, I will show you that you will contradict yourself because your logic has been taken as the foundation of your belief system

there are many jews who oppose manyh things but one factor is that jews have a unity example eithest jew is considerd a jew by even the most religious rabbi and vise versa and aithiest jew still condiers the most relligious rabbi a jew

yea democrocy so far as i have seen it it does
and so what if many ideas go against each other i dont care about that i care that there is an enviorment for theme to be there
becuase after all what makes my belife better than the other.

[Inquisitor]

there are many jews who oppose manyh things but one factor is that jews have a unity example eithest jew is considerd a jew by even the most religious rabbi and vise versa and aithiest jew still condiers the most relligious rabbi a jew

yea democrocy so far as i have seen it it does
and so what if many ideas go against each other i dont care about that i care that there is an enviorment for theme to be there
becuase after all what makes my belife better than the other.

Judaism is a religion. You can't say Athiest Jewish, but you can say an hebrew athiest.

Just like, you can't say muslim atheist, but you can say Iranian or Arab atheist.

Mike, honestly you are not making sense. You are just telling me what you think, yet you fail to be reasonable. You haven't answered my questions yet, either you didn't understand or you just want to skip them.

You still don't know the diffrences of freedom in unity and indivisualism. How can you say which one is better when you cannot define them.

Read my posts once again

[Borzo]

Salam
...
It depends on how you use that money. If both parties are agree with each other and sign an agreement (ofcourse there will be no harm to ordinary people in any way), then there is no problem.

By the way, this Democracy that you talk about is not part of our ideology. Liberal Democracy of West and Islam oppose each other in many cases.

Next time, provide me the verse and be more clear, I 'll be happy to discuss it with you

Dear Inquisitor
I am not good to write in english, i am better in german and french, by the way I thought these page are for Iranian.
As you maybe know there are some hadith which Muhammad (s) told us whats gone happen with his word, if you want them I can put them here. I do it short He told us that it will come a time which my followers changing my word, and I think you do it in your short explanation. In holy Quran it is so clear, Riba is forbidden.

آیه در مورد ربا خواری :
"احل الله البیع و حرم الربا" (بقره 275)
خداوند خرید و فروش را حلال ولی ربا را حرام کرد "

002.275 Those who devour usury will not stand except as stand one whom the Evil one by his touch Hath driven to madness. That is because they say: "Trade is like usury," but Allah hath permitted trade and forbidden usury. Those who after receiving direction from their Lord, desist, shall be pardoned for the past; their case is for Allah (to judge); but those who repeat (The offence) are companions of the Fire: They will abide therein (for ever).

با سپاس

[Inquisitor]

Salam

Thank you for raising reasonable questions and being respectful. Not all the Ahadith are true. In fact some of them contradict each other. Let's have discussion on verses of quran and those Ahadith that are all accepted by the major Islamic Schools of thought such as Jafari, hanafi, Shafeyi, ... .

In Islam, only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. Excessive interest or usury from lenders is prohibited.

Actually some of the states in USA have laws against usury and if you ask them what does it mean, they say: It means "extortionate interest", in another word practice of taking exorbitant or excessive interest. In Arabic there is a different between Fa'eda and Reba. Fa'eda is an essential component of the financial aspect of man-kind. For example, you have saving account, you put you money there because you need to save money and the bank is actually somehow using that money or you may carry a credit card, or may borrow and pay interest for a TV or to own a house. When you Borrow money and thus pay the interest for business loans, it is an essential component for business.
So it is perfectly fine as long as it is not considered excessive by the standard of the day and community, also mutual fund is okay.

I suggest you to read 2:282, it will help you more to understand

Wassalam

Dear Inquisitor
I am not good to write in english, i am better in german and french, by the way I thought these page are for Iranian.
As you maybe know there are some hadith which Muhammad (s) told us whats gone happen with his word, if you want them I can put them here. I do it short He told us that it will come a time which my followers changing my word, and I think you do it in your short explanation. In holy Quran it is so clear, Riba is forbidden.

آیه در مورد ربا خواری :
"احل الله البیع و حرم الربا" (بقره 275)
خداوند خرید و فروش را حلال ولی ربا را حرام کرد "

002.275 Those who devour usury will not stand except as stand one whom the Evil one by his touch Hath driven to madness. That is because they say: "Trade is like usury," but Allah hath permitted trade and forbidden usury. Those who after receiving direction from their Lord, desist, shall be pardoned for the past; their case is for Allah (to judge); but those who repeat (The offence) are companions of the Fire: They will abide therein (for ever).

با سپاس

[mike435]

Judaism is a religion. You can't say Athiest Jewish, but you can say an hebrew athiest.

Just like, you can't say muslim atheist, but you can say Iranian or Arab atheist.

Mike, honestly you are not making sense. You are just telling me what you think, yet you fail to be reasonable. You haven't answered my questions yet, either you didn't understand or you just want to skip them.

You still don't know the diffrences of freedom in unity and indivisualism. How can you say which one is better when you cannot define them.

Read my posts once again

see tats the thing Jewish isn't just a religion
it is also ethnicity
it is culture
if it was limited to religion that there would be antisemitism against athiest jews
if it was just an ethnicity than there wouldn't be antisemitism's against religious jews who are also g-d loving

but i get what you mean this was just to tell you what jews think and what most of the world thinks of jews

and look i dono how to explain it yo it is my experiences that create my opinions and i tries as best as i could do explain the difference
but its ok we can drop the conversation if you want

[Inquisitor]

see tats the thing Jewish isn't just a religion
it is also ethnicity
it is culture
if it was limited to religion that there would be antisemitism against athiest jews
if it was just an ethnicity than there wouldn't be antisemitism's against religious jews who are also g-d loving

but i get what you mean this was just to tell you what jews think and what most of the world thinks of jews

and look i dono how to explain it yo it is my experiences that create my opinions and i tries as best as i could do explain the difference
but its ok we can drop the conversation if you want

Arabs are semitic too.

By the way this topic is about Islam. Fahmidam Yahoudi hasti, you don't have to repeat yourself

ok we can drop the conversation if you want

Not interested debating with kids under the age of 16

Wassalam

[Borzo]

Salam

Thank you for raising reasonable questions and being respectful. Not all the Ahadith are true. In fact some of them contradict each other. Let's have discussion on verses of quran and those Ahadith that are all accepted by the major Islamic Schools of thought such as Jafari, hanafi, Shafeyi, ... .

In Islam, only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. Excessive interest or usury from lenders is prohibited.

Actually some of the states in USA have laws against usury and if you ask them what does it mean, they say: It means "extortionate interest", in another word practice of taking exorbitant or excessive interest. In Arabic there is a different between Fa'eda and Reba. Fa'eda is an essential component of the financial aspect of man-kind. For example, you have saving account, you put you money there because you need to save money and the bank is actually somehow using that money or you may carry a credit card, or may borrow and pay interest for a TV or to own a house. When you Borrow money and thus pay the interest for business loans, it is an essential component for business.
So it is perfectly fine as long as it is not considered excessive by the standard of the day and community, also mutual fund is okay.

I suggest you to read 2:282, it will help you more to understand

Wassalam

Dear Inquisitor
Thanks for answer. Dear sir I know the difference between false hadith and a true one (Tavatoor تواتر و یا متواتر) and this one I am talking about is a true one.
Another Part of your answer is exactly what Muhammad (S) had told us. You (I mean in general not just you) can not change the word and order of God and coming with your explanation.
The vers you suggest is about something else and does not telling us anything about Riba.

I suggest you to read vers 280.

با سپاس

[donsaeid]

very very interesting disc. guys! please keep politics out! thank you!

ps! dear Inquisitor. mike likes to talk about jews in everything he says or does! even when we talk about jorab so dont worry!

[Inquisitor]

Dear Inquisitor
Thanks for answer. Dear sir I know the difference between false hadith and a true one (Tavatoor تواتر و یا متواتر) and this one I am talking about is a true one.
Another Part of your answer is exactly what Muhammad (S) had told us. You (I mean in general not just you) can not change the word and order of God and coming with your explanation.
The vers you suggest is about something else and does not telling us anything about Riba.

I suggest you to read vers 280.

با سپاس

Salam

I don't know what you are trying to prove with " reba ", are you saying that some muslim practice it ? Some Islamic governments are doing it ?

If you just want to know what that verse means, I gave you the answer in previous post.

You asked about [Quran 2: 280]

This verse, Allah (swt) tells us to have tolerance and patience for the people who are poor and cannot repay us on time, and the creditor has to postpone the deadline.

[Inquisitor]

ps! dear Inquisitor. mike likes to talk about jews in everything he says or does! even when we talk about jorab so dont worry!

That's true, his age could be the reason for this.

[Borzo]

Salam

I don't know what you are trying to prove with " reba ", are you saying that some muslim practice it ? Some Islamic governments are doing it ?

If you just want to know what that verse means, I gave you the answer in previous post.

You asked about [Quran 2: 280]

This verse, Allah (swt) tells us to have tolerance and patience for the people who are poor and cannot repay us on time, and the creditor has to postpone the deadline.

Salam Inquisitor
We are talking about some rules in a religion (here islam). On base of these rules each religion is/was able to built a civilization, which people lives in peace and harmony. One which is necessary to achieve democracy or better to say social justice (Edalate Ejtemaii) is Economy f ex banking system and its rules. If you have a Islamic state, and each rules must be on base of what the Holy Quran tell us, in our time we get a problem. All I saying is that we can not change the word and order of Gud. Reba is forbidden in Islam.
I give you an example, in the time when Islam came to africa there were some places which people food and economy was Pig. So when the moslem come to these places and told them that I they want to be moslem, then they should not eat Pig, the old man of village said we do not call it pig anymore, from now we call it f ex Camel.
It is and will be always Gud who can Change his own words, not us.

با سپاس

[Inquisitor]

Salam, If they have done such a thing in Africa, It is Haram. True, the words of God doesn't change, but Islamic schools of thought have different interpretation over some Quranic verses.

Reba is forbidden, and I mentioned it in my previous posts

Salam Inquisitor
We are talking about some rules in a religion (here islam). On base of these rules each religion is/was able to built a civilization, which people lives in peace and harmony. One which is necessary to achieve democracy or better to say social justice (Edalate Ejtemaii) is Economy f ex banking system and its rules. If you have a Islamic state, and each rules must be on base of what the Holy Quran tell us, in our time we get a problem. All I saying is that we can not change the word and order of Gud. Reba is forbidden in Islam.
I give you an example, in the time when Islam came to africa there were some places which people food and economy was Pig. So when the moslem come to these places and told them that I they want to be moslem, then they should not eat Pig, the old man of village said we do not call it pig anymore, from now we call it f ex Camel.
It is and will be always Gud who can Change his own words, not us.

با سپاس

If you have a Islamic state, and each rules must be on base of what the Holy Quran tell us, in our time we get a problem.

Then that God is no longer the God and that book is no longer holy. Does he know about future & Past ?

Quran is not flawed according to Muslims and all the rules in it (such as Reba) applies for all the generations, and if someone breaks it, has commited a sin.