Holocaust

[khoshtip_uk]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykd-syzZ4ZY"]YouTube - Iran's Ahmadinejad on Holocaust[/ame]

[mike435]

notice the biast translation
@2.25 he says
khob agar ye vagheyate.......

translator takes out his "if at one time" and skips to
the more research and studies.......

he compares it with questioning of profits and g-d
he says its ok to do those and not question holocust

i forgot the term used when somthing is just one way becuase of facts
that you shouldnt even question it

like g-d, profits(moses) and etc.... you can allways question those becuase they are not documanted facts

but the holocust is a fact that people in our generation have seen and felt and marks of it are everywere
why would you even question it when you can see that it obviously happend

[Rasputin]

Take it easy, please! Everyone is so upset at this stupid gathering of non-intellects that we are forgetting ethnic cleansing, genocides, and war crimes that are fresh out of the oven.

I have, perhaps, one single and simple phrase that may force you to reflect and calm down, CONSIDER THE SOURCE!! I mean, Jesus, it is Ahmaghinejad, David Duke, and a collection of single digit IQ s. What do you expect them to gather in Tehran and do, solve world hunger? Have a planned out resolution for global warming?, even though "W" says it doesn't exist. Maybe the brain waves at work were to to eradicate Aids!?

C'mon, give them a break. At the time when there are medical conferences , scientific sessions, and real honest to goodness issue-solving meetings around the world, these guys had to do something. They weren't going to be left behind. True, their issue was and is a non-issue and they weren't really solving any problems, but they were included.

I will take away nothing from the atrocities that took place in those concentration camps. I make no light of the matter that people died in matters that no human being should have. But do we really need to shed this much light on this crazy gathering and give it the weight it doesn't deserve?

We have books, museums, annual memorials, and Lord knows many Hollywood movies dedicated to the Holocaust, but do we really need to have jail term for anyone who denies it? At the time, when we are allowed to have a Nazi party and be a member of it, even run for office under it's flag, can we not have a few nut jobs have a meeting over the denial of the fact?

Millions died before the Holocaust, after the Holocaust, and now as we talk about this. None ever got the attention to have theirs named. The Armenians died in millions and the Turkish government doesn't even acknowledge the fact.

Americans killed probably more than a million in the Vietnam War, it's not even called a war, they refer to it as a "police action". Ethnic cleansing took place just a decade ago in Bosnia and most of you don't even know what I'm talking about. Women are getting raped, men are being killed, and children are having their arms cut off by machetes in Darfur, as I write this. And last but not the least, do we even need to bring up Palestinians' demise in the hands of the same people who want to tar and feather those who mention the Holocaust in anything less than a sorrowful voice.

So, please, be fair, be just, and be aware that the Holocaust was neither the beginning nor the end of humans killing other humans because they didn't like them. We will have Holocausts bigger and more despicable than the ones before. Those with money and power will keep their Holocaust alive and those like the Armenians, just have a parade in the streets in memoriam. They just recently became people with a country.

There is no limit to the animal in us that brings about such hatred.

[Rasputin]

Iranians abroad are ashamed these days. This is a new shame involving the Holocaust conference held by the Iranian foreign ministry. It replaces the past year's shame over the way Ahmadinejad dresses and how he looks. The shame before that was the Iranian support for the Hezbollah Shiite movement in Lebanon.

There have always been reasons for shame among the Iranians abroad ever since the revolution of 1979. The reaction to this felt shame has been two sorts of denial. One is the outright denial. Here I'm talking about those who are chelokabab eating, doogh drinking by day and Italian by night. They deny their nationality if the situation demands it. The other is blaming it on the "Arabs, and their "second invasion." If only we could get rid of the "Arabs," then everything would be OK. Honey would flow in the joobs, and people would be farting Gol'ab while promenading on the once again called Khiyaban Pahlavi. This denial wants to give the impression that it is only a minority of Iranians who adore and worship the "rule of the Arabs", and that the majority are true blue descendents of Cyrus the Great.

Here is a wake up call. You are the minority! All this "good old times" under the Shah was only for a couple of million privileged people. The rest are the people that you are ashamed of. I know that most of us outside Iran, now have, after all these years, either the citizenship of the country we are residing in or have some kind of permanent residentship. Why don't we just say it as it is, when we are asked about our nationality? "We are former Iranians that left the country because we did not fit in the new Iranian society."

Now back to the Holocaust conference. There were some dubious characters present at the conference, and inviting them was a mistake. What bothers me most about these shame letters avalanching Iranian.com these days is the lack of objectivity. Common for all these letters is the expressed shame. Not one of them discusses the various opinions and analysis put forward in the conference. Typical American yellow journalism where the essence is left out and only characters are discussed. What did people say in the conference? What, if any, new facts were presented?

The Holocaust is a fact. Discussing it will not diminish its gravity. So why are Western governments trying to put a muzzle on people wanting to discuss it? Why should people be put in prison wanting to examine the details of the Holocaust?

I agree completely with the motto of Iranian.com. Nothing is nor should be sacred. Shutting people up who have a different opinion will only make heroes out of them. Do you think, that if the conference attendees, could have expressed themselves in their respective countries, they would have associated themselves with this conference?

The Iranian government is using all venues to defend itself and keep its enemies at bay. Holding this conference was one of them, telling the rabid Israeli/Neocon alliance that disinformation is not solely their domain. For God's sake, there have been hundreds of conferences and gatherings in the US, discussing regime change in Iran, legitimacy of the Iranian government, preventing "Shiite domination" of the region, curbing Iranian influence in the Middle East, etc. But there is no shame there? They discuss causing an Iraq-like situation in Iran, and no shame is felt for that either among Iranians.

They are discussing the legitimacy of the Prophet Mohammad in Europe, sometimes calling him a pedophile, sometimes depicting him as a donkey. What is the European public reaction to that? Nothing. They call it freedom of expression. Their governments say they "regret the reaction" of Muslims to these publications, but never regret their publication, which is how it should be.

So here I declare that I only regret the effect of this conference on Jews and fellow former-Iranians, but I do not regret either the holding of the conference nor am I ashamed of it. My character is not defined by what governments do.

[Rasputin]

On issue of genocide awareness that fittingly have been conveyed here on Iranain.com, this is what I need to address. If I do not, instead I continue vomit various unsightly bits and pieces of green and yellow liquidity every time I deeply ponder about it. So, here we go.

The “conference” of Holocaust in Tehran was another blow to broken spirit of Iranians. There were countless Iranians disgusted with this assault and took it as another blow to their values in honoring life of mankind. Regardless of location of genocide, Iranians boldly denounce any atrocious forces desiring to validate such inhumane act whether in the past, present, or in the future.

For literate and cultured Iranians, the issue of the internationally recognized concept of genocide and its condemnation because of deliberate cruelty and despitefulness against humanity and mankind is unyieldingly well perceived. This is a blessing. And it appears due to nature of Iranians the prospect of this rising interest on this issue would not diminish and on the contrary would thrust forward with swift pace and it will be colossal understanding of their own situation. For Iranians, that is an issue required musing with merit of long time desired goal in quest of preventing own extinction.

Islamists in Iran have continually contrived genocide of Iranians in one way or another. Iranians have felt this gradual genocide with their skins for centuries. Their best and brave individuals, male and female - young and old – artists and writers and so on, have been killed, maimed, tortured, jailed, or clandestinely disappeared. Islamists have been massacring Iranians in large numbers throughout their adventurism of world dominance. Iranian races, cultures, heritages, and languages have continuously been under relentless attack by Islamists.

Those Iranians who converted to these Islamists’ ideology of coercion under menace of sword and decapitation have regrettably become sympathizers of their earliest Islamists hostage takers. The “Stockholm Syndrome” has perpetuated its malicious cycle of “cleansing” (read it Islamic Arabization) on good segment of Iranian population. In this regard, Iranians whether being Persians, Azeris, Kurds, Balochis, Luries, Gilakis, Ghashghais, and so on are all in danger of extinction. Thus, every Iranian in heart vehemently condemns genocide of Iranians by Islamists.

The latest chain of events in Iran and internationally have presented excellent opportunity for Iranians to systematize an open symposium on Iranian genocide issue by Islamists. Iranians with their various cultures will vanish if the Islamization of Iran continues. Not to become the victim of complete genocide, Iranians need to understand adversaries and challenges not just against the aggression of superpowers for natural resources of the country and its strategic position but also against incessant Islamization of Iran.

In this journey, besides putting up a good survival undertaking and fortitude, the more sympathizer and supporters Iranian muster in Iran and internationally on this issue, the sooner Iranians can reach to free Iran from Islamists’ assault.

Contrary to Islamists, Iranians can accept all religions including Islam and they will tolerate them equally in the future under the rules of Iranian democratic laws.

[donsaeid]

One thing really interesting!


Only people who helped a occupation power to kill them without fighting against were jews! they did all the shit work for nazis! jewish police! o my god! is it possible? to send your own people to gazz chambers just so you self can live some more days? that is really low! but thank to their god they have changed now now they send palestinians to death! so they have that some more days again!

[donsaeid]

[Rasputin]

عسگراولادى گفت: مردم در انتخابات اخير نشان دادند كه از شعور مرموزى برخوردار هستند و به رييس*جمهور تذكر دادند كه ما خود تو را قبول داريم اما كسانى را كه بخواهند از راى تو و نام تو استفاده كنند، قبول نداريم.

به گزارش خبرنگار "ايلنا", اين عضو شوراى مركزى حزب موتلفه اسلامى در جمع كانون زندانيان سياسى قبل از انقلاب با اشاره به انتخابات و شكست نسبى ليست رايحه خوش خدمت (حاميان دولت) تصريح كرد: آنها (رايحه خوش خدمت)بسيار تك*روى كردند و حاضر نشدند در فهرست ائتلافى شركت كنند كه يكى از دلايل عمده شكست آنان نيز همين نكته بود.
وى در پاسخ به سوال خبرنگار ايلنا در مورد نحوه همكارى اين ستاد با مجموعه ائتلاف اصول*گرايان، گفت: هنوز در مورد اين موضوع تصميمى اتخاذ نشده است. مجموعه اصول*گرايان بايد در مورد اين نوع همكارى تصميم بگيرند و در آن صورت مي*توان در مورد همكارى ائتلاف اصول*گرايان با ستاد رايحه خوش خدمت تصميم گرفت.
رييس جبهه پيروان خط امام و رهبرى خاطر نشان كرد: مردم در انتخابات 24 آذر نشان دادند كه از شعور مرموزى برخوردار هستند و به رييس*جمهورمان تذكر دادند كه خود او را قبول دارند اما كسانى را كه بخواهند از رأى وى استفاده كنند، قبول ندارند. مردم در اين دوره از انتخابات نشان دادند به افرادى رأى مي*دهند كه داراى سابقه خوب مديريتى هستند.
عسگراولادى با اشاره به سياست ستاد رايحه خوش خدمت در اين انتخابات، گفت: آنها آن قدر به خودشان مطمئن بودند كه اظهار مي*كردند ما 30 ميليون رأى داريم و به همين دليل افرادى مثل شيبانى و چمران را هم از ليست خود حذف كردند. دليل اين شكست همين نكته مي*تواند باشد و نتيجه آن شد كه كسانى كه دولت تبليغ آنان را مي*كرد، رأى نياوردند و چهار نفر از اصلاح*طلبان و بخش عمده*اى از ائتلاف بزرگ اصول*گرايان و تعدادى كمى از ستاد رايحه خوش خدمت موفق به ورود به شوراها شدند.
وى تصريح كرد: اگر نگوييم اين دوره از دوره*هاى گذشته بهتر خواهد بود، به طور قطع هم*عرض دوره*هاى قبلى شوراى شهر تهران است زيرا مردم در اين دوره به شخصيت*هايى راى دادند كه سابقه افراطي*كارى ندارند و به طور مثال از اصلاح*طلبان آقاى نجفى و خانم ابتكار شخصيت*هايى هستند كه سابقه خوب مديريتى دارند.
عضو باسابقه حزب مؤتلفه اسلامى در ادامه برنامه در پاسخ به سوال*هاى حاضران در مورد نحوه عملكرد دولت احمدي*نژاد در سياست داخلى و خارجي، خاطر نشان كرد: تمام اصول سياست خارجى ما را سران نظام تصميم*گيرى مي*كنند و اين طور نيست كه فقط رييس*جمهور در اين*باره تصميم*گيرى كند. شايد سوال شود پس چطور رييس* جمهور يك حرف مي*زند، رهبرى حرفى ديگر، وزير امور خارجه نيز يك موضع*گيرى ديگر دارد و رييس كميسيون امنيت ملى نحوه ديگر صحبت مي*كند. پاسخ آن است كه هر چهار نفر نبايد يك جور صحبت كنند. وزير خارجه بايد تحت ديپلماسى مطرح*شده اظهار نظر كند. دبير شوراى عالى امنيت ملى طبق چارچوب پروتكل، رييس*جمهور هم هر فريادى كه ملت ايران سر مي*دهد، بگويد و رهبرى نظام هم مسائل انقلاب را بازگو كند.
عسگراولادى با اشاره به طرح بحث هولوكاست از سوى رييس*جمهور، اظهار داشت: اين موضوع نيز كاملاً حساب*شده مطرح شد و زمانى بحث جدى شد كه عربستان سعى مي*كرد مسلمانان را جمع كند تا با اسرائيل كنار بيايند. با طرح بحث هولوكاست تمامى اين قضايا به هم خورد و سه هدف نيز دنبال شد؛ يكى آن كه هولوكاست دروغ است، دوم آنكه اگر هم راست است، چرا فلسطين محاكمه مي*شود و آلمان بايد مجازات شود، سوم آنكه چه كارى بشردوستانه است؟
وى تاكيد كرد: در سياست خارجى هيچ چيز بدون مشورت انجام نمي*شود.
عسگراولادى در مورد اظهارات اكرمي، وزير آموزش و پرورش دولت ميرحسين موسوى كه دوران وى را با شرايط فعلى مقايسه كرده بود، اظهار داشت: موسوى در آن وقت خيرالموجودين بود اما همان نيز ما را حذف كرد. بايد توجه داشت موسوى به درد امروز نمي*خورد. ضمن آنكه خيلى از انتقاداتى كه به آقاى احمدي*نژاد وارد مي*شود، به دولت*هاى گذشته نيز وارد است. به عنوان مثال آقاى خاتمى اكثر مسوولان ستاد انتخاباتى خود را استاندار و فرماندار كرد يا از دولت آقاى هاشمي، كارگزاران بيرون آمد. خاتمى 15 هزار نفر را در آموزش و پرورش جابجا كرد، پس چرا آن روز همين آقاى اكرمى انتقادى نكرد.
عضو شاخص حزب مؤتلفه اسلامى خاطر نشان كرد: تمامى مشكلات ما از دشمن نيست، در خيلى از مواقع خود ضعيف عمل كرده*ايم. من قبول دارم مشكلات بسيارى هست اما بايد نيمه پر ليوان را هم ديد.
وى تصريح كرد: آن حكومت اسلامى كه ما مي*خواستيم تنها در دوره حكومت جهانى حضرت مهدى(عج) محقق خواهد شد و حكومتى كه حضرت على (ع) در نامه خود نوشته و ترسيم كرده است، در زمان خود ايشان نيز محقق نشد.
عسگراولادى با اشاره به بركنارى برخى نيروهاى باسابقه در دولت نهم، اظهار داشت: نظام ما بين نظام سرمايه*دارى و كمونيستى است، به اين معنا كه بايد راى مردم را پذيرفت. مردم نيز به دولت نهم راى دادند و اين دولت نيز مورد تاييد رهبرى است تا جايى كه ايشان گفتند بعد از انقلاب هيچ دولتى به اين اندازه در چارچوب عمل نكرده است، حرفى كه مشابه آن را بنده نيز بعد از آن گفته بودم و برخى از رسانه*ها نيز آن را انعكاس دادند. بنابراين اين دولت توانست شعارهايى بدهد كه نظر مردم را جلب كند، همان كارى كه آقاى خاتمى انجام داد لذا بايد تصميمات آنها را نيز پذيرا باشيم.
عسگراولادى در آغاز سخنان خود در مورد سوابق مبارزاتي*اش گفت: من مدت*ها قبل از انقلاب در مبارزات انقلابى حضور داشتم و همواره نيز فعال بودم، به غير از سال*هاى 34 تا 38 كه نااميد شده بوديم اما از سال 39 به بعد بود كه مجدد به فعاليت*ها و مبارزات انقلابى خود بازگشتيم، اين فضا با حركت*هاى نهضت آزادى شكسته شد و آغاز حركت*هاى بعدى در انقلاب بود.
وى افزود: فوت آيت*الله بروجردى نيز باعث شد حوزه و دانشگاه هم به حركت درآيند و مجدد فعاليت*هاى انقلابى آغاز شود.

[Rasputin]

Forty five years ago in October 1962, people watched in horror as the superpowers went to the brink of a global nuclear war during the Cuban Missile Crisis when the Soviets attempted to place nuclear missiles in Cuba, to match U.S. deployments in Europe near the Soviet border. What followed next was nearly 30 years of constant fear of a nuclear holocaust. But 15 years after the fall of the Soviet Union the threat of a new nuclear disaster still remains.

The recent report by the Sunday Times that 'Israel has drawn up secret plans to destroy Iran's uranium enrichment facilities with tactical nuclear weapons' may have come as little surprise to those closely following these reports first hint of which surfaced during an MSNBC Interview with U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney in January 2005 when he literally gave U.S. approval of a unilateral Israeli attack on Iran:

"One of the concerns people have is that Israel might do it without being asked ... Given that Iran has a stated policy that their objective is the destruction of Israel, the Israelis might well decide to act first, and let the rest of the world worry about cleaning up the diplomatic mess afterwards"

Missing in the rhetoric and media reports since are the actual consequences of such an attack and the fact that a nuclear assault on Iran will usher in the very disastrous scenario the world managed to avoid for over half a century during the cold war and that the ensuing mess will not be so easy to clean.

The high risk neo-con strategy for gaining unchallenged U.S.-Israeli dominance in the region has already burdened the American people with one enormous catastrophe in the Iraqi debacle and if left to make good on bringing about a nuclear attack on Iran, the rest of the world will share and experience the very calamity they've so far managed to evade.

Even a conventional attack on Iran could have a catastrophic impact on global economy as Iran produces nearly 4 million barrels a day and can cause havoc for or impede delivery of nearly 25% of total oil passing through the Straights of Hormuz on its way to the world markets.

But a U.S. and Israeli plan for "surgical tactical nuclear strikes" hold far more serious consequences which are ironically packaged and presented by an acquiescent media as means of preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Missing, is any debate on the undesirable outcomes of the resulting nuclear holocaust which will adversely affect the lives of millions of people in the region for months, years, or perhaps decades to come.

Once again the unsuspecting public is being primed to accept such an illegal act of aggression as a necessary 'peace-keeping operation' but the world must wise up to such deceptive tactics and realize that no peace can be achieved through violence. What is urgently needed is a sustained, and growing nonviolent opposition to the chain of preparations that will lead to the very kind of disaster we managed to avoid in October of 1962. Now is the time to take decisive and direct action against the warmongers in defense of human life everywhere on this fragile planet.

[Rasputin]

Germany hopes to make Holocaust denial a crime across the EU as part of a package of laws it wants to introduce during its presidency of the bloc.
Berlin is also set to outline plans to ban Nazi symbols like the swastika, which, like denying the massacre of the Jews, is already outlawed in Germany.

Such moves may be seen as curtailing freedom of speech and could prove controversial in several member states.

But the German justice minister says she is confident of winning support.

If it goes ahead, it will be the second time in two years that an attempt has been made to ban the display of Nazi symbols within the EU.

The last bid failed in 2005 after objections from several governments, including the British.

An attempt to criminalise denying the massacre of Jews during WWII meanwhile was blocked by Italy, citing freedom of speech.

But the Italian Government has since changed, and is now seen as more sympathetic to Justice Minister Brigitte Zypries' proposals.

Caveats

However last year's trial of the British historian David Irving, who was imprisoned for Holocaust denial in Austria, sparked a heated debate in Europe and illustrated just how controversial such a move might be.

EU STATES WITH LAWS AGAINST HOLOCAUST DENIAL
Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Lithuania
Poland
Romania
Slovakia


Denying the Holocaust

Even his opponents said they were deeply uncomfortable with the idea of imprisoning someone for their opinions, however objectionable they were.

The details of the proposal have yet to emerge, but it is thought likely that member states would have the right to set their own rules determining if and how a Holocaust denier should be punished.

Under any new law, prosecutors might also have to prove that a Nazi symbol was being used with the intention of whipping up racism.

Old symbol

The swastika, while used by the Nazis as an insignia, was not created by them, and a number of groups still use it.

It has featured in traditional Latvian knitwear for centuries, variously known as the Thunder Cross or Fire Cross, and remains a time-honoured good luck symbol for Hindus.

Similarly some MPs from former communist states object to a ban on the swastika without a commensurate ban on the symbols of the Soviet era, such as the hammer and sickle.

While Germany is only country in Europe which has banned the use of Nazi insignia, France, for example, bars the sale of Nazi-related memorabilia.

[Rasputin]

[donsaeid]

[Rasputin]

[mike435]

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2274705n

to the ten who say it never .......

[donsaeid]

Yo Mike! New Resolution passed in UN about holocaust!