Saudi Cleric Explains Wife Beating in Islam

[zubin]

I completely disagree with the article for a variety of reasons. First, the article completely neglects the counter-masculine forces in Iranian culture. It depicts Iranian culture as it truly isn't. We must admit that both in current modern Iran and in Iranian culture generally, men do NOT have all the power. There are masculine and counter-masculine forces. Some issues Iran is worse than the West, some better, some equal. Also law isn't power, norms are power. So a law might say men are able to have 5 wives, but norms in Iran greatly condemn this.

About freedom, I'm afraid I don't agree with current popular definitions. Namely, freedom from religion is thought to be freedom. But, many people find their freedom in religion. I don't personally, but I can not deny that some do. Also, secularism is showing itself to be simplistic. All societies that try to be secular backfire and religion gains a strong foothold once again. The point is that religion and politics must be "reconciled" as opposed to become enemies of each other. Only then will religion reform itself and be less oppressive.

Perhaps we could discuss freedom and oppression on a more illustrative case by case basis through examples etc to make the discussion more clear. To stay on topic, perhaps we could discuss spousal abuse. Sure, Islamic interpretation DOES have a negative impact on relationships. My point is that there is ALSO a social and cultural factor, somewhat influenced by our blind love for the west, that is part of the problem.

My conclusion is that we are not only oppressed by religion but also by the West. We have to break out of both.

[Dokhtar Bandari]

I am pretty sure your last paragraph basically says what I have mentioned...below and above.

At this moment our biggest problem is religious oppression and aggression. One step out of time. NO one is looking to deny anyone of any religions, only to give one a freedom to choose, yes or no religion and which one they want. But I completely and utterly am convinced that no one particular religion should influence any political body that would be ruling a nation. Everyone can have a voice and representation in the body of government, but not a permanent influence. As you know very well, in Islam seperation of Social standards and political standards are one and the same...meaning Islam rules the governing body...to that end I can not agree.


Previously posted:
"Now you see why I say they have leave our country? Its not just Islam that I am peeved with...I don't want anyone to rule our country...Islam, Jews, Christians, Americans, Arabs...so on and so forth...none of them...I want the sovereign of Persia to rule Iran, the people of Iran to rule Iran..independent of any force, abuse, oppression, foreign ideas, religion and inadequate political views in force at this time. Parsians must live as a free nation. We are a highly intelligent race that has forgotten our heritage, we have created tools that has brought humanity to what it is today...but we have given into fears and have a complete amnesia of who we truly are. Time to wake up."

[ghalibaf]

The saudis are a bad example of islam, dont take them as an islamic figure, they are nothing but everything hating wahabis.

The true islam is not this.

[Rasputin]

The saudis are a bad example of islam, dont take them as an islamic figure, they are nothing but everything hating wahabis.

The true islam is not this.

Where is this --> true islam <-- ? I know where is it ... Islam still is in Arabia Saudi,with Ghoraish Trib and theire prophet,Mohoammed !!!

We never had a true or perfect islam ! If is true or is perfect,is good for Arab ppl and in generally for non Iranian ppl (Pakistani,Turk,etc ...).

[zubin]

I am pretty sure your last paragraph basically says what I have mentioned...below and above.

At this moment our biggest problem is religious oppression and aggression. One step out of time. NO one is looking to deny anyone of any religions, only to give one a freedom to choose, yes or no religion and which one they want. But I completely and utterly am convinced that no one particular religion should influence any political body that would be ruling a nation. Everyone can have a voice and representation in the body of government, but not a permanent influence. As you know very well, in Islam seperation of Social standards and political standards are one and the same...meaning Islam rules the governing body...to that end I can not agree.

And if religion is the biggest problem, for me the West is even bigger because the West is who incites fundamentalism.

I'm not focusing on the problem, I'm focusing on the solution.

[zubin]

Nemidoonam valla.. ina adam nistam. Nemishe fekreshoono avaz kard vaghti aghleshoon kar nemikone

Ta hodoodi ghabul. Vali fekrushuno meeshe avaz kard. Baazi-ha zud yad meegeeran, baazi-ha tul meekeeshe.

Nemeetuneem adamaye bado hamashuno befresteem be yek jazeere. Bayad amuzesh dad va donya ro behtar kard. *Ta hodudi* adam bayad ghavi va mohkam bashe, ke sooe estefade nashe, vali adame bado meeshe avaz kard. Een sabet shode.

[mike435]

yea were is true islam it is rediclious to say there is a true islam in any of these country it is mostley culture i dont think its islam
is true is lam in iran were they stone girls
is true islam in hamas were they blow up them selfs to kill innocent civillians
is true islam in hezbolah to reain down missles with out discrimination of population centers
is true islam in parts of africa and egyp were they mutilate young girls
is true islam in britan and france were they preach open hatred for the west

you see the point is all these places have one thing in common and that is they pass their own cultures and point of view off as islam
now here is somthing to look at the islamic countries that are secular tend to be the one with less of these anti human stands example dubai, kovait, quatar, turkey,
do you know why these countries tend to have less humman atrocitys is becuase they cant take refuge under theri own version of islam and call it an islamic act and justify it to their population

bottom line relligon cant rule socioty, becuase peoples cultures more than anything influences daily life and interptations of relligion

that is why ture islam can only be found with in the person
and i think in secular countries

and this is why treatment of womman is again culture, all the examples above that i mentioned that happen agains wommman is only in specific countrys and is not practiced in all islamic areas
and infact in other areas it is totaly banned and condemed

[ghalibaf]

yea were is true islam it is rediclious to say there is a true islam in any of these country it is mostley culture i dont think its islam
is true is lam in iran were they stone girls
is true islam in hamas were they blow up them selfs to kill innocent civillians
is true islam in hezbolah to reain down missles with out discrimination of population centers
is true islam in parts of africa and egyp were they mutilate young girls
is true islam in britan and france were they preach open hatred for the west

you see the point is all these places have one thing in common and that is they pass their own cultures and point of view off as islam
now here is somthing to look at the islamic countries that are secular tend to be the one with less of these anti human stands example dubai, kovait, quatar, turkey,
do you know why these countries tend to have less humman atrocitys is becuase they cant take refuge under theri own version of islam and call it an islamic act and justify it to their population

bottom line relligon cant rule socioty, becuase peoples cultures more than anything influences daily life and interptations of relligion

that is why ture islam can only be found with in the person
and i think in secular countries

and this is why treatment of womman is again culture, all the examples above that i mentioned that happen agains wommman is only in specific countrys and is not practiced in all islamic areas
and infact in other areas it is totaly banned and condemed

since your mostly educated by western propaganda then having to take your posts seriously makes it very difficult for me, your problem is your mixing politics, social problems with islam..

[Dokhtar Bandari]

Zubin jaan, here is the focus on the solution...separate religion from social and political standards...then we are good to go...religion is a means to an end, but its means must be capped. They should not and must not have a cart blanch to use any means to force their ideology on a society.

"Give to Cesar things are Cesar's and to God things that are God's", Yeshua Ben Joseph.

[Dokhtar Bandari]

Jenabe Aghay Galibaf...with all due respect sir, please do not strike Mike down and do not make him feel his opinion is not worthy. It is as well as yours. If we can not see all sides and consider all possibilities, we have not moved from where we started. Thank you.

Your point on Saudi Arabia is well taken, it is to that end that we are not looking forward to in our country. We are saying we do not want to be Arabs..do not shove their ideology down our throat, which is exactly what Islamic Republic is doing. They have no choice if they consider themselves Muslims, one only needs to read Sura 21.11-15

"We have destroyed many a sinful nation and replaced them by other men. And when they felt Our Might they took to their heels and fled. They were told: 'Do not run away. Return to your comforts and to your dwellings. You shall be questioned all.' 'Woe betide us, we have done wrong' was their reply. And this they kept repeating until We mowed them down and put out their light."

And again:Sura 9.123

"O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you, and let them find in you a harshness, and know that Allah is with the godfearing."

I can site many of these "abrogated" Suras for you which will fill you with shiver. Any time you want sir, I can site many many more to show you their way of justice and no mercy. Though they are not the original abrogating Suras, they have been abrogated by the Arabs. I am sure you know the difference as a moslem.

However, I do agree with you that Saudis are savages...lol.

[mike435]

since your mostly educated by western propaganda then having to take your posts seriously makes it very difficult for me, your problem is your mixing politics, social problems with islam..

budy i am confusing it
islam incompesses and transends all at the same time
it is a political movment as much as it is relligion

[zubin]

Zubin jaan, here is the focus on the solution...separate religion from social and political standards...then we are good to go...religion is a means to an end, but its means must be capped. They should not and must not have a cart blanch to use any means to force their ideology on a society.

"Give to Cesar things are Cesar's and to God things that are God's", Yeshua Ben Joseph.

if that's the solution, the bigger solution is how to achieve THAT, right?

[Dokhtar Bandari]

if that's the solution, the bigger solution is how to achieve THAT, right?

No pressure there bro...lol

Rather perplexing question wouldn't you say? I believe as Ghoran says, Social Awareness is the answer. 99% of Moslems don't really know what they are worshiping, blind faith. Most don't even know or understand Ghoran. How about a little education, a bit of a bread crumb to what the truth is. A shift in consciousness. Consciousness and energy creates the nature of reality. At this point in time Moslems have consciousness of a certain reality which has been handed to them, they need to have a consciousness of a Human being who can create his own fate through a faith in God not a faith in religion. All religion is is a set of instructions...one must always question any instruction given or fall into the mercy of the instructor.

[Dokhtar Bandari]

if that's the solution, the bigger solution is how to achieve THAT, right?

No pressure there bro...lol

Rather perplexing question wouldn't you say? I believe as Ghoran says, Social Awareness is the answer. 99% of Moslems don't really know what they are worshiping, blind faith. Most don't even know or understand Ghoran. How about a little education, a bit of a bread crumb to what the truth is. A shift in consciousness. Consciousness and energy creates the nature of reality. At this point in time Moslems have consciousness of a certain reality which has been handed to them, they need to have a consciousness of a Human being who can create his own fate through a faith in God not a faith in religion. All religion is is a set of instructions...one must always question any instruction given or fall at the mercy of the instructor.

[Dokhtar Bandari]

LOL...I like to rpeat myself.